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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The other day I was picking up KING 5 on 48.1 and getting no dropouts like I use to on KING 5 at 5.1. Now 5.1 is back and I have lost 48.1 can anybody tell me whats going on please.
 

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I am still viewing KING on 48.1.

Bill


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I, too, noticed that KING had moved to 48.1 and is now back at 5.3 for me. I'm curious, too, what's happening. Art
 

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Otherwise known as channel re-mapping. All digital receivers have this capability built in. It only requires that the broadcaster trasnmit the necessary data. If The broadcasters were not previously transmitting that data, then the channels would appaear as their assigned UHF channels. Apparently you all experienced the marvels of modern technology when those broadcasters swithed "on". Either that or life as we know it on this planet is coming to an end.
 

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After following this thread, I did a rescan and lost 48.1 and got back 5.3. I never had one drop out on 48.1 and 5.3 is still breaking up as always. I am now more than ever convinced it is KING DT not doing something right. All we are talking about here is a physical channel (48.1) versus a "virtual channel" 5.3.


Does anyone notice 9.1 is steady as a rock while 9.2 and 9.3 break up within 5 to 10 seconds after selection? PSIP? Not all these problems are SONYs and I really don't care about the arguments that other STBs are not experiencing these problems. I sincerely believe that stations using virtual channels of x.2 and above are not doing it correctly.


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[This message has been edited by Babula (edited 05-29-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Babula you are correct. I see the same thing happening in Everett, Washington. I am running CM 4228 and 7775 CM amp. 5.3 comes in at 94 on the digital meter and breaks up about every 10 to 15 seconds. Same on 9.1 and 9.2 but there was not one break up on 48.1. Wish KING would broadcast on that frequecy. I am going to leave a E-mail to Dave (he is the head tech for HDTV and UHF reception at KING) I have his direct phone number at work I will post it on the forum tommorow. The stronger the number of people that call him will get the best and fastest action.


[This message has been edited by jaye fayed (edited 05-29-2001).]
 

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I have the Panasonic TUDST51 receiver which allows me to turn off the channel mapping "enhancement". Unfortuneately the unit does not include a signal strength meter but tonight I was able to receive 38, 39, and 48 with no problems. It seems that 41 (KCTS / 9) doesn't broadcast after 10 PM anymore. I'd really like to know what is up with KCTS. Why do they shut down instead of switching over to the national feed so that we can something new instead of the same "Over ___________" stuff they play over and over and over...


BTW, I'm located in the Spanaway area.


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I would suggest you email the KCTS people and express your opinion. I have asked them to "lose the loop" a number of times but if more people would do it perhaps it would happen. They are NOT broadcasting the digital signals most of the day now - I got an email from them - to save energy they claimed.


Whether you pick up the signal on 9-1 or 48, it is the SAME SIGNAL. It only shows up on 9-1 because of your receiver mapping so any differences in reception are due to your receiver not the station.

Jim


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Engine ear, thansk for your input. I understand what you say, however, it is remapped to 5.3 locally. Until last night, I had about two weeks where it was mapped to 48.1 (normally 5.3) As long as it was mapped to 48.1 and my STB indicated it was selecting 48.1 in the display, there are no dropouts. When KING starts plying with the PISP and went back to 5.3,(selected by my STB as 5.3 on the display) it would start breaking up within 5 to 10 seconds after being tuned to by me. In all cases, whether I am displaying 5.3 or 48.1 (when I am able to do that depending upon, I assume, KING playing with the PSIP) the displayed signal level by the HD-100 is steady as a rock at 90 and up. There is never any indication of "intermittant" signal levels. Yet I switch back to viewing and when on 5.3 it starts to break up. I am convinced that KIING has a problem with their PSIP when telling the STB to map to 5.3 and does not when it maps to 48.1 My point in the earlier post in discussing another local channel (KCST) is that I feeel it is more than a coincindence that when trying to view thier subchannel 9.2 or 9.3 (HDTV is on 9.1) they are both droping out while 9.1 is steady as a rock.


I therefore draw the conclusion that there is something about PSIP protocol and how either my HD-100 handles it or how KING and/or KCST are handing it on 5.3 , 9.2 or 9.3 is amiss. All my locals that are on dot1 (x.1) are steady as a rock. Only 5.3, 9.2 and 9.3 are breaking up every 5 to 20 seconds.


I appreciate your comments.

Bill


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Jim,


I have already sent KCTS an email once encouraging them to do just that. I never did receive a reply.


Does anyone on here have any information for KCTS like the program director's number or email address?


Perhaps we can start a letter writing campaign to sway KCTS to be more of a pioneer than a looper.


And while I'm on my soap box. When is KING 5 going to get off of this "The future of television" loop. Don't they realize they are quickly becoming the faded past of television? Don't get me wrong, I do love the material they show, specially their Evening Magazine goes to Ireland piece. But enough is enough.


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I wrote KCTS about 2 weeks ago and got a response on Friday. I told them that I wished they'd carry the usual evening schedule. That I don't get their analog channel, only the digital one (true). And, that seeing the Over Wherever videos has a certain limitation. Their response was they're trying to conserve electricity by shortening hours. Of course, it takes (a little) more electricity to run an extra VCR for playback of the Over Wherever videos than running the same schedule as their analog channel. Oh, well. I can't think that video loops is what the feds were thinking when they required stations to turn on digital. Art

Quote:
Originally posted by VWMan:
Jim,

I have already sent KCTS an email once encouraging them to do just that. I never did receive a reply.

Does anyone on here have any information for KCTS like the program director's number or email address?

Perhaps we can start a letter writing campaign to sway KCTS to be more of a pioneer than a looper.

And while I'm on my soap box. When is KING 5 going to get off of this "The future of television" loop. Don't they realize they are quickly becoming the faded past of television? Don't get me wrong, I do love the material they show, specially their Evening Magazine goes to Ireland piece. But enough is enough.
 

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Engine Ear,

Thanks again for your comments.


Jaye,

Do you have email address for guy at KING? Or have you spoken with them? I have sent emails to the web site "contact" address with no results. If its the HD100 and they say that, I have no reason to doubt that. But no response at all is "cheeky" (wahtever that means! :)



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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Babulua


I talked to Dave Williams today at KING 5 phone number 206-448-5555 and told him about the dropouts on 5.3 but not 48.1 on the HD-100's. He said his engineers are experimenting trying to correct the dropout problems on the HD-100. He was very thankful for the information and he said it would be better if other people that had the HD-100 could call him about this problem so it will strenghten his case with his engineers and techs. I told him the 48.1 was the fix but he has to hear it from others. He said do not e-mail him just call his number and ask for him.
 

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I spoke with Dave at KING today. After conversing with him, I now conclude that the problem is Sony's. KING was doing some testing over the last couple of weeks and were on 48.1

Now they are back to 5.3 He convinced me that they carefully check their transmission two different ways. He is convinced that they are to spec. He did find my theory about tne dot1 and dot2 or dot3 differences interesting and he was going to discuss it with his "guru" who was in later today. He told me that he has had no contact with Sony on this and says they are not calling him about any of these issues. He mentioned that KING is a complete station Sony user! Amazing.



I called Sony since I had not spoken to them in a couple of weeks and there is no news except there are issues with the HD-100 that are being "worked on". Unfortunately he admitted that I probably know more about the issues than he does. He did go "off line" for about 10 minutes and came back with the usual "line" about they are working on it.


Patience is a virtue I guess. I cannot get to excited about these things because I realize I am an Beta tester!


PS There is a thread about Houston which I see has similar problems. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/012589.html


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[This message has been edited by Babula (edited 05-30-2001).]
 

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Well, I just turned on the TV for the evening and guess what? KING DT 5.3 is now steady as a rock!! Go figure! The first time ever!


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[This message has been edited by Babula (edited 05-30-2001).]
 

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Hi Seattle area guys!


I just wanted you to know that I am not experiencing any of the dropouts you are talking about on my RCA DTC-100. However, I have the PSIP channel mapping forced off, so all I see (and select) are the real UHF channels used by the stations:


KING - 48

KCTS - 41

KIRO - 39

KOMO - 38

KCPQ - 18


I did notice today that KCTS was coming in HD on 41.5, which I had never seen before (usually HD is on 41.1).


I was gone all weekend (Thur. through Tue.) so I obviously did not see anything then.


I too am tired of the loops broadcast on both KING and KCTS. I thoroughly enjoy watching KCPQ, KOMO and KIRO, even when they are only upconverting from 480i to 480p. I would like to watch KING and KCTS regular programming as 480p when HD programs are not available.


Dave
 

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If you talk to Dave again, I'd be interested to know why they choose 5.3 instead of 5.1. Art

Quote:
Originally posted by Babula:
I spoke with Dave at KING today. After conversing with him, I now conclude that the problem is Sony's. KING was doing some testing over the last couple of weeks and were on 48.1

Now they are back to 5.3 He convinced me that they carefully check their transmission two different ways. He is convinced that they are to spec. He did find my theory about tne dot1 and dot2 or dot3 differences interesting and he was going to discuss it with his "guru" who was in later today. He told me that he has had no contact with Sony on this and says they are not calling him about any of these issues. He mentioned that KING is a complete station Sony user! Amazing.



I called Sony since I had not spoken to them in a couple of weeks and there is no news except there are issues with the HD-100 that are being "worked on". Unfortunately he admitted that I probably know more about the issues than he does. He did go "off line" for about 10 minutes and came back with the usual "line" about they are working on it.


Patience is a virtue I guess. I cannot get to excited about these things because I realize I am an Beta tester!


PS There is a thread about Houston which I see has similar problems. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum11/HTML/012589.html
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Robinson:
Here in Portland, Mr Lee wood works for KOIN TV (CBS). He is one that makes the changes on the HDTV channel. I'll write him an email to write here to answer your questions.


[This message has been edited by Robinson (edited 05-31-2001).]
All right, here goes. The ATSC standard is to 'label' or 're-map' the digital channel to the traditional analog channel identification (KOIN as analog channel 6, while transmitting DTV on UHF channel 40, 'labels' the services and 6-1, 6-2, etc.) We have a lot invested in our 'KOIN 6' brand name and wish to maintain it (as do KING5, KIRO7 and KOMO4).


If the PSIP (as described above) is formatted correctly it should be transparent as to what a station labels itself. That said, not all receivers respond the same. Older Panasonics don't remap (you have to tune to 40-1), Toshiba DST-3000s do (but you can't turn it off and have to tune to 6-1) and RCA DTC-100s let you do it either way ('aquire off-air guides' on (6-1) or off (40-1)). There is a lot of varibility in what is implemented and how at this point.


The key point is that simply re-mapping a channel number should NOT affect receivability of a channel unless either the receiver or the PSIP data is not properly implemented.


Lee




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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
KING TV is fixed. Watched 5.3 last night not one drop out. Thank you to Dave Williams and his Tech's at the station for the fixes and corrections. The neat thing was is that it was corrected to the Sony HD-100 boxes, which proves that the HD-100 is still the sharpest picture, easiest to operate, , best menu, and fastest, and most adaptable HDTV box in America. The Zennith box will surpass the Sony in a few months but for now the Sony rules. For everybody that turned theirs back in I hope you made the right decision.
 

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Thanks Engine EAr,

What amazes me is that no one knows what happened to fix things!


Bill


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