[pcm2a]

My setup consists of an Onkyo 606 receiver, Klipsch Quintet III 5.1 speaker package, and a 10" powered sub. I did the microphone thing to automatically adjust all the speakers. Here is what I ended up with.


Speaker Configuration:

Front: 150hz

Center: 120hz

Surround: 120hz


Speaker Level:

Front L&R: -8db

Center: -12db

Surround L&R: -6db


The problem I am having is when you play a DVD and most of the speech comes out of the center speaker and it's just way too quiet.


I changed the Center to 150hz and the Level to -8db. I sounds much better now, but I wonder how to properly set these items.


What exactly is the 150hz vs 120hz?

 

[Denophile]

150/120 should be where they cross over to the sub--which in all cases is quite high--80 would be more rasonable.


try setting the front right left and center to 0 and the suround to +2. then turn the sub vol to a reasonable level. even better--get a radio shack spl meter forget the microphone and use test tones to set the level for each speaker with a calibrated 75db test tone available through your receiver or via a test disk like digital video essentials or avia. should make everything ok,.

 

[pcm2a]



Quote:
150/120 should be where they cross over to the sub--which in all cases is quite high--80 would be more rasonable.

Can you tell me what you mean by they cross over to the sub? At 150hz is it letting more or less bass into the speakers than at 80hz?


How can you find out what hzs is best for your particular speakers? I try seeing it to 150 and then to 80 and do not hear much of a difference.

Quote:
try setting the front right left and center to 0 and the suround to +2. then turn the sub vol to a reasonable level.

What would the difference be between -8 for front and center and -6 for surround compared to 0 and +2? It would seem like the sound would be the same you would just have to turn the former up louder?

Quote:
test disk like digital video essentials or avia. should make everything ok,.

I dont want to spend any more money, but if I can get this sound setup disc or something similar for free online I would be glad to give it a whirl. Does it help you set up the Tone and the Volume?

 

[maxcooper]



Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


Can you tell me what you mean by they cross over to the sub? At 150hz is it letting more or less bass into the speakers than at 80hz?

150Hz sends less of the bass to the speaker, and more to the sub, as compared to a setting of 80Hz. Crossovers are not "brick walls", but generally the receiver will send any bass below the crossover frequency to the sub. So, for instance with the center channel, if the crossover setting is 120Hz, any bass in the center channel of the movie you are watching will get sent to the sub instead of the center speaker.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


How can you find out what hzs is best for your particular speakers? I try seeing it to 150 and then to 80 and do not hear much of a difference.

Audyssey measures it for you.


Bass above 80Hz is said to be "localizable", which means that you can tell which speaker the sound is coming from. Most sound you hear from the speakers is localizable, so perhaps it is more clear to say that bass below 80Hz is usually NOT localizable -- which means you can't really tell where it is coming from in the room. It is sort of surprising, but it's true -- you can't really perceive where low bass is coming from, even if you have the sub in a weird spot, like behind you on one side of the room.


So, the issue is that your speakers don't have much bass capability, and you will probably be able to tell that the bass is coming from the sub, even when it is "supposed" to be coming from one of the other speakers. You could reduce the crossover frequency settings, but I don't recommend that since your speakers can't reproduce the lower bass sounds at a reasonable level -- reducing the crossover frequency settings will make "holes" in the response of the system. I think it is better to accept the Audyssey settings and let the bass go to the subwoofer. Since most sound comes from the center channel in tv and movies, I would try to position the sub as close to the center speaker as you can (as opposed to far off to one side, or in the rear of the room).

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


What would the difference be between -8 for front and center and -6 for surround compared to 0 and +2? It would seem like the sound would be the same you would just have to turn the former up louder?

I don't know why Denophile suggested that. I agree with your assessment of the effect, which is that there would be no difference except in how much you have to turn the volume knob to achieve a given "real" sound level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


I dont want to spend any more money, but if I can get this sound setup disc or something similar for free online I would be glad to give it a whirl. Does it help you set up the Tone and the Volume?

You can probably find some free test tone discs online. However, I would just accept the settings that Audyssey has determined for you and optimize around those settings (e.g. getting the sub close to the center of the room).


-Max

 

[cyberbri]

I suggest raising the center channel level 1~2 notches higher than the auto-setup configured it at, and turning the Dynamic Range Control (DRC) / Night Mode / Midnight Mode to a "medium" or "max" (full) setting. Whether or not you turn on DRC, you still need to turn up the volume more. Movies have a lot of dynamic range, or difference in volume between the quietest and loudest sounds - compared to music or television shows. To get dialog at a good volume level for movies, you have to turn it up quite a lot. Turning on DRC makes it so that you can still hear the dialog, without the loud sounds being too loud, and with the quiet sounds being louder and easier to hear.

 

[craig john]



Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


Can you tell me what you mean by they cross over to the sub? At 150hz is it letting more or less bass into the speakers than at 80hz?

Sounds are "waves" of varying frequencies. The frequencies are known as Cycles per Second, or Hertz, (or Hz), named after Heinrich Hertz, who first described them:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hertz


Low bass sounds are low frequency waves (low Hz) and the higher the pitch, the higher the frequency, (higher Hz). The following chart shows the frequency ranges of various musical instruments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_of_music


Large drivers, (subwoofers) do better at reproducing lower frequency sounds. Smaller drivers (tweeters) do better at higher frequency sounds. A "crossover" divides up the frequencies and sends them to the more appropriate driver.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


How can you find out what hzs is best for your particular speakers? I try seeing it to 150 and then to 80 and do not hear much of a difference.

The manufacturer's specifications tell you the frequency range the speakers are capable of reproducing. Your Klipsch Quintet III's are technically capable of reproducing from 120 Hz up to 23 kHz, (or 23,000 Hz):
http://www.klipsch.com/products/deta...specifications


However, your Onkyo receiver uses Audyssey for calibration and equalization. Audyssey actually measures the output of your speakers. It sets the crossover between the speakers and the subwoofer at the level appropriate for the *measured* response.


The reason you don't hear much difference between the 80 Hz setting and the 150 Hz setting is that sending the speakers an 80 Hz signal does not result in any significant output from 80 to 150 Hz. Your speakers are not capable of producing those frequencies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


What would the difference be between -8 for front and center and -6 for surround compared to 0 and +2? It would seem like the sound would be the same you would just have to turn the former up louder?

These settings are the relative volume levels between the speakers. You want them all to be the same at the Listening Position. Audyssey measures the in-room sound pressure level of each speaker, and adjusts them for equal volume at the LP. Some of the speakers may be closer to the LP than others, or they may get more reinforcement from the walls, floor and ceiling than the others. Therefore the volume from those speakers is adjusted to make them all equal. You should not change these settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcm2a /forum/post/15457738


I dont want to spend any more money, but if I can get this sound setup disc or something similar for free online I would be glad to give it a whirl. Does it help you set up the Tone and the Volume?

If you are using Audyssey, you probably don't need to bother with this. However, if you want to learn about this stuff, a test disc and an SPL meter are good teaching tools.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2103667
http://www.realtraps.com/test-cd.htm


Craig

 

[craig john]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/15460237


I suggest raising the center channel level 1~2 notches higher than the auto-setup configured it at,...

I disagree with this advice. Dialogue is not the only thing that comes out of the CC. Music, sound effects, pans, etc. also use the center channel. You don't want those sounds to be unbalanced with the rest of the speakers. If dialogue is too low, I suggest:

1. Turn up the Master Volume

2. Engage Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.


Craig

 

[eiger]

I was going to pick up an SPL Meter this week.


Does anyone have any real opinions between the analog versus digital versions?

 

[ClarkeBar]

They both work fine. The analog is preferred by some of us for the VU metering. I use the analog.

 

[J_Palmer_Cass]



Quote:
Originally Posted by eiger /forum/post/15462313


I was going to pick up an SPL Meter this week.


Does anyone have any real opinions between the analog versus digital versions?

I prefer the digital version. It has more options.


It will also store the PEAK volume level that the analog version can not respond to.

 

[eiger]

Someone should sticky or do whatever necessary to this thread as it's extremely informative for us who are still learning the ins and outs of sound.

 

[cyberbri]



Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/15461838


I disagree with this advice. Dialogue is not the only thing that comes out of the CC. Music, sound effects, pans, etc. also use the center channel. You don't want those sounds to be unbalanced with the rest of the speakers. If dialogue is too low, I suggest:

1. Turn up the Master Volume

2. Engage Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.


Craig

Many people notch the center channel up 1dB to help with dialog, especially when dialog intelligibility and keeping overall volume level down is important, and room/speakers aren't ideal.


Another tip is to make sure that the center channel speaker is positioned correctly - as in...aimed/tilted at the listening position (not at your feet or over your head), and at the front of the shelf it's sitting on, not back on the shelf with the sound bouncing off the shelf and echoing or smearing the sound.

 

[craig john]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/15467656


Many people notch the center channel up 1dB to help with dialog, especially when dialog intelligibility and keeping overall volume level down is important, and room/speakers aren't ideal.

1 dB is probably pretty benign. In fact, 1 dB is hardly perceptible, (in which case it's hardly worth doing.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/15467656


Another tip is to make sure that the center channel speaker is positioned correctly - as in...aimed/tilted at the listening position (not at your feet or over your head), and at the front of the shelf it's sitting on, not back on the shelf with the sound bouncing off the shelf and echoing or smearing the sound.

Excellent advice.

Craig