[__Josh125__]

Hello all, I have had my JBL HTIB for going on 8 years now and it's time to start to slowly upgrade.


I'm going to start with speakers. Currently I have a wee little center and satellite's for both front and rear surround. There seems to be plenty of good options. I need to be able to mount the rears and have a question about the fronts. I have a entertainment center with w 19" wide to cabinets. Would this enclosed space ruin the sound? If so, are there acceptable mountable fronts?


I'm sure it get's old helping the less initiated, but I do appreciate it. I have added a picture of the entertainment center if it might help. As you can see I have limited space above the center.


Thanks

 

[utcpyro]

You could probably throw a decent bookshelf in the two upper shelves. Just measure and see what will fit.

 

[cbibbs]

What do you want from the upgrade? Are you unhappy with the speakers in some way?


Putting bookshelf speakers in your cabinet will degrade the sound, but they only way to determine if it is excessively bad is to try it. Many of the Internet direct brands will let you try them for 30-days. You might want to try that or go to your local boutique dealer and see if you can take home some demo speakers to try it out.

 

[dknightd]

You could replace those side pieces with floor standing speakers.

 

[__Josh125__]

Thanks for the input! I am trying to achieve a fuller more rich sound. The current speaks lack any mid or low range sounds. I am going for a nice full clean sound. I have looked at a few speakers, all of which will fit snuggly into the top portion, but again I was worried about how they would sound. I could cut the back out of the cabinets if need be to give them more breathing room.

 

[cbibbs]

How much space do you have to work with?

 

[droht]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cbibbs /forum/post/0


How much space do you have to work with?

and what is your budget?

 

[__Josh125__]

I have about 19" length to deal with, I would expect to turn the speakers on their sides to fit them in (see above picture). I only have ~ 14" height if I were to fit them in up right (can't be exact on that one, I'm traveling this week but I did measure the length)


The budget is 3-400 for the 5 speakers. I plan to keep using my old JBL sub, sounds good to me. At some point I will upgrade my reciever as well.

 

[cbibbs]

Lying speakers on their sides isn't always a good idea. Some speakers disperse more horizontally than vertically and if you lay them sideways you'll have a hard time getting in the sweet spot.


In any case, these are a bit more than your budget, but they'd physically fit and you can try them out at home before committing.

http://www.svsound.com/products-spks-sbs01.cfm
http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/...,12,35,17.aspx

(without the sub, the Aperion system is ~$520)


You could also just replace your fronts and center channel. I wouldn't normally recommend mixing speakers at random, but if it doesn't sound bad (and you can audition it at home) you can get a pretty good upgrade for the dollar.

 

[droht]

Josh125, I'd look at something like PSB Alphas. You can pick up 3 of their Intro CLRs for [email protected] at dcm-electronics.com. I think they retail for $169 each. Maybe you can find them at a B&M and get a similar deal. They will fit upright or horizontal in your space. Dimensions: 9.75Hx4.25W. I'd keep using your current speakers as surrounds. I think that is a good tradeoff considering how little "work" they do for HT and the difference it can make focusing your budget on fronts. My .02 - I'm sure you'll get other suggestions.

 

[mazersteven]

Josh,


Take a look at these speakers. I had the opportunity to audition these on Sunday. This is one really awesome speaker. Incredible sound quality. I highly recommend you try to audition these.


They are shielded so you can have them close to your television display. They are front ported. They are small. And they have an awesome build, and finish quality. And they are inexpensive. I would purchase two, save purchase two more, save and purchase the center.

http://www.usheraudiousa.com/product...s-520-shielded

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1205usher/

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/s...speaker-review

 

[__Josh125__]

Thanks for the suggestions, I will take a look after work today!

 

[Hood7]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cbibbs /forum/post/0


Putting bookshelf speakers in your cabinet will degrade the sound, but they only way to determine if it is excessively bad is to try it.

I'm confused as to why it would degrade the sound to put bookshelf speakers into that cabinet...that is, to put bookshelf speakers in a bookshelf. I always figured if the speakers are solid boxes, firing only out the front with no ports or anything on the sides or back, that they are in fact intended for such installations.


I'm very curious, as I've got a set of SVS's SCS-01's for my L/C/R and SBS-01's for surrounds. All 3 SCS-01's are going in a bookshelf/entertainment center that's built into the wall. Am I making a mistake here?


Thanks!

 

[droht]

Hood7, you can search around this forum and find numerous threads addressing this issue. Some speaker manufacturers actually make speakers to be used "in cabinet". Check out NHT & PSB, iirc.


I was in the same situation as you and I went with 3 x-cs speakers from av123 to use in a built in entertainment center. Nothing special about those speakers for the application, except that they are sealed. I've placed those speakers at the very edge of the bookshelf and pushed them back a couple of inches. I also put them on makeshift stands right in front of the bookshelf at the same height. If you blindfolded me and made me listen to all three "positions" I'm pretty certain I could not tell the difference. I most listen to blues and rock, with a little jazz. I am not a "critical listener". If you are you may want to take this issue more seriously, but for me it is a complete non-event.

 

[cbibbs]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood7 /forum/post/0


I'm confused as to why it would degrade the sound to put bookshelf speakers into that cabinet...that is, to put bookshelf speakers in a bookshelf. I always figured if the speakers are solid boxes, firing only out the front with no ports or anything on the sides or back, that they are in fact intended for such installations.


I'm very curious, as I've got a set of SVS's SCS-01's for my L/C/R and SBS-01's for surrounds. All 3 SCS-01's are going in a bookshelf/entertainment center that's built into the wall. Am I making a mistake here?


Thanks!

I assure you, this speaker was never intended to be placed on a bookshelf:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1153


Despite the name, many bookshelf speakers are meant to be placed on dedicated stands a good distance from any walls or platforms. Only a handful benefit from the changes in bass response the cabinet walls create. Usually those are smaller speakers that have very little in terms of bass on their own and need the reenforcement.


I say all of this based on what I've read in magazines and my own experience trying my speakers both on their stands and as part of of my entertainment center. I get tons of bass when they go onto the shelf, but I also get lots of distortion and the bass becomes unbalanced.


Come to think of it, one of the local dealers does have his bookshelves on a shelf, but the speakers are still pulled away from the rear wall by several inches and nothing comes within two feet of the side walls. It is also an incredibly thick shelf with lots of weight resting on it.

 

[Hood7]



Quote:
Originally Posted by droht /forum/post/0


Hood7, you can search around this forum and find numerous threads addressing this issue. Some speaker manufacturers actually make speakers to be used "in cabinet". Check out NHT & PSB, iirc.


I was in the same situation as you and I went with 3 x-cs speakers from av123 to use in a built in entertainment center. Nothing special about those speakers for the application, except that they are sealed. I've placed those speakers at the very edge of the bookshelf and pushed them back a couple of inches. I also put them on makeshift stands right in front of the bookshelf at the same height. If you blindfolded me and made me listen to all three "positions" I'm pretty certain I could not tell the difference. I most listen to blues and rock, with a little jazz. I am not a "critical listener". If you are you may want to take this issue more seriously, but for me it is a complete non-event.

Thanks droht, I expect I'll be okay then. The SCS-01's are also sealed (like your x-cs's), and I am not a "critical listener" on a level with many/most regulars here, although I do want it to sound good to me. I'll be listening to mostly movies/tv, and rock/blues. If it turns out for some reason that I don't like the sound once I put the speakers onto the shelves, then I'll return them to SVS. FWIW, they sound great sitting on the floor so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbibbs /forum/post/0


I assure you, this speaker was never intended to be placed on a bookshelf:
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1153

Cbibbs - The linked page specifically states: "When there is not enough space for a floor-standing speaker, the stand- or bookshelf-mount 805S gives 800 Series sound quality in a compact system." So...they're...not intended to be placed on a bookshelf? Is there a difference between "placing" them on a bookshelf and them being "bookshelf-mounted"?


I'm not disputing that your experience with them in the bookshelf is as you state, just (once again) disappointed in what seems to me to be deceptive language in the a/v industry.

 

[frumper15]

For that size budget, I would recommend upgrading only a few components. Depending on your movies/music ratio, I would recommend starting with just the main speakers and either a center or sub (or both if you can stretch a little). I have the X-LS from AV123 and an SVS PB10 sub and I really like both of them. I will save up to get a matching center and possibly move the X-LS to surrounds when i can afford some floorstanding mains.

For you, I would recommend getting the X-LS, running without the center channel for a while and getting an X-sub to round out the bottom end. You might find yourself listening to a lot more music with that setup, but movie dialog and effects will also improve dramatically. I wouldn't worry about surrounds right now, they don't do much anyways. Hope that helps.

 

[droht]

I think the bass issue on bookshelf has more to do with rear-ported speakers. If you stay with front ported or sealed you at least avoid that issue. Not sure how bad it is, but it was easy to avoid so I did.

 

[cbibbs]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Hood7 /forum/post/0


Cbibbs - The linked page specifically states: "When there is not enough space for a floor-standing speaker, the stand- or bookshelf-mount 805S gives 800 Series sound quality in a compact system." So...they're...not intended to be placed on a bookshelf? Is there a difference between "placing" them on a bookshelf and them being "bookshelf-mounted"?


I'm not disputing that your experience with them in the bookshelf is as you state, just (once again) disappointed in what seems to me to be deceptive language in the a/v industry.

I've spent more time thinking about that shelf in the dealer's listening room. I've never had something that solid to sit my speakers on. I'd want to try it for myself, but perhaps thats the difference between my entertainment system shelf and their idea of a bookshelf.


Mind you, my dealer won't put the 805S on that shelf. Anything bigger than the old B&W 601 is placed on stands.


I'm not sure what other term you could use for them, but it would be nice to know up front if the manufacturer thought the speaker should be on a stand or on a shelf.

 

[droht]



Quote:
Originally Posted by cbibbs /forum/post/0


I'm not sure what other term you could use for them, but it would be nice to know up front if the manufacturer thought the speaker should be on a stand or on a shelf.

A few manufacturers make specific speakers designed to be placed in an enclosed bookcase (PSB & NHT; maybe others as well). My guess is that 99% of the others would recommend not doing so to make certain that sound was not compromised in any way. Ideal placement for most speakers is away from all boundaries - sides; back; top; bottom. Having said that, my speakers are in an enclosed bookcase and I can't tell the difference.