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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My head is hurting after reading thru these threads the past two days.


My Hitachi CRT RPTV is dying and I really don't want to spend the cash to get it fixed. After learning more about plasma vs. LCD I think I'm going to go plasma.


So here's what I've learned so far.

1. Samsungs Buzz

2. Panny's black level rises

3. LG's black levels aren't as good but apparently don't buzz or raise their blacks.


My budget is max $1500, prefer to stay lower. My CRT is 57" and I would like to stay around that but it looks like I will probably go 50".


Ambient light is not to bad, never enough to bother us with the CRT.


Viewing is probably 60% TV, 30% DVD/Movies, 10% gaming.


So, is the buzzing really that bad on the Samsungs?

Is the rising black level of the Panny something to steer away from?

Have LG's improved blacks with their new 550 and 750 models?


Thanks,

Jerry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds22 /forum/post/18310723


My head is hurting after reading thru these threads the past two days.


My Hitachi CRT RPTV is dying and I really don't want to spend the cash to get it fixed. After learning more about plasma vs. LCD I think I'm going to go plasma.


So here's what I've learned so far.

1. Samsungs Buzz

2. Panny's black level rises

3. LG's black levels aren't as good but apparently don't buzz or raise their blacks.


My budget is max $1500, prefer to stay lower. My CRT is 57" and I would like to stay around that but it looks like I will probably go 50".


Ambient light is not to bad, never enough to bother us with the CRT.


Viewing is probably 60% TV, 30% DVD/Movies, 10% gaming.


So, is the buzzing really that bad on the Samsungs?

Is the rising black level of the Panny something to steer away from?

Have LG's improved blacks with their new 550 and 750 models?


Thanks,

Jerry

Honestly, I wouldn't buy any of them right now. If you can get a steal on a Pioneer, get it. If not, wait another year and see what comes out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by robi1138 /forum/post/18310801


Honestly, I wouldn't buy any of them right now. If you can get a steal on a Pioneer, get it. If not, wait another year and see what comes out.

May not be an option as my CRT is not going to last long. It's cycling off and on and also turning green while watching it.

 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds22 /forum/post/18310723


My head is hurting after reading thru these threads the past two days.


My Hitachi CRT RPTV is dying and I really don't want to spend the cash to get it fixed. After learning more about plasma vs. LCD I think I'm going to go plasma.


So here's what I've learned so far.

1. Samsungs Buzz

2. Panny's black level rises

3. LG's black levels aren't as good but apparently don't buzz or raise their blacks.


My budget is max $1500, prefer to stay lower. My CRT is 57" and I would like to stay around that but it looks like I will probably go 50".


Ambient light is not to bad, never enough to bother us with the CRT.


Viewing is probably 60% TV, 30% DVD/Movies, 10% gaming.


So, is the buzzing really that bad on the Samsungs?

Is the rising black level of the Panny something to steer away from?

Have LG's improved blacks with their new 550 and 750 models?


Thanks,

Jerry

Samsung Buzz is a hit or miss problem so its sort of a crap shoot


rising black levels on 2009 panny's will only present a real noticeable problem if you intend to watch movies/TV in a dark room, under daylight and normal room light conditions all model's i've seen in stores that have had the increase don't look much worse if any worse than our 50X1 does right now (its got a little over 400 hours so it has had 1 increase in black levels happen already and so far it's still producing a great picture IMO)


not sure if LG has improved the black's on their Plasma's but from everything i hear about them they have never had the same blacks as samsung and panasonic.


also gaming performance input lag wise is best on panasonic's FWIW
 

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The rising blacks issue on Panny plasmas is WAY overblown, possibly because some people here think Panasonic tried to keep it under wraps or maybe just because it can be quantified. Unless you're a hyper-tweak and watch most of your TV in a totally dark room, it really isn't going to have any effect on your viewing pleasure.


If I were in your position I'd jump on a 50" G20 or G25 in a heartbeat and never look back. It's within your budget, and the picture is at least as good (or possibly even better) than the V10, last year's consensus "best" plasma.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by frito /forum/post/18310843


rising black levels on 2009 panny's will only present a real noticeable problem if you intend to watch movies/TV in a dark room

That's good to know. We do watch quite a bit of TV and movies at night with low light.


This morning I estimated our TV usage. I came up with a figure of about 240hrs. per month, 2800hrs per year.


With that in mind, should I maybe consider LCD as an option?
 

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as long as you have ambient light on in the room and anyone really should have some sort of bias lighting with any display be it plasma or LCD you will be happy with the black level even after the increase happens


as Spoffo said you could also look into getting a 2010 model like the S2 or G20/25, panny has said they will make the rising black happen much more smoothly over a longer period of time, the problem as i see it currently is the rise happens too quickly on 2009 models and the phosphors have yet to age enough to compensate for the increased voltage used to drive the pixels and that is what creates the problem.


I'm pretty sure what we will find eventually is that all these guys complaining about and reading the blacks at higher levels today will see them slowly drop over time as the phosphors age and thus the black levels will lower accordingly. depending on how much you use the TV this could take a year or longer to happen however. I'm just speculating on this part but the way i understand how plasma's work it will happen someone correct me if i'm wrong
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

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Originally Posted by Jonesy11 /forum/post/18311086


The G20 may be an excellent choice for you.

The G20 looks nice.


Can I ask what the difference is between the G20 and the S2?
 

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G20/G25 is perfect for you and your moolah range. I myself have had a CRT for a while that broke. I cannot wait a year nor want to.


Imo the black level rising IS overblown. For many videophiles it's not, who in pitch black watch and then it will be noticable, but still good blacks. This was a cause of concern for me but no more.


The G is better than S2 is difference. Better blacks, etc.


The G20/25 50 in. yeah top stuff. Yes, the VT20s/25 "3D" Panny's will be out in a few months, and even if you dont care for the 3D it'll have a few more features than G series but quality wise should be the near the same (yeah there's their "pro" infinite black to be seen yet). But I'm happy to get the G. I think you'd be too. PERSONALLY I prefer it over Samsung, ultimately you should go out see for yourself, and not be too deterred by "black levels rising" and "buzzing" you hear here.
 

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.. you may still purchase a 58" which would be close to yr failing CRT; either the Panasonic tcp58S1 or the Samsung pn58b550/or/560.


reputable online vendors are still selling; probably even our Sponsors.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jds22 /forum/post/18311144


Can I ask what the difference is between the G20 and the S2?

The G20/25 (they're essentially the same set) has the new front glass that yields darker black and less reflections than the 2009s and previous models. The S2 doesn't have this and is, as far as I know, unchanged from last year.


Also, the G20/25 has the full set of "advanced" user picture adjustments that you could only get on the V10 last year.


Essentially, with the V-series having been elevated to 3D this year (at a $1,000 bump over the Gs) Panasonic seems to have promoted the G series to be the "2D videophile" model this year, up from its position last year as more like the high end of their everyday line. The S series was a slightly-stripped G, intended as their "Value 1080" model, and was featured at places like Costco.


The only high-end videophile feature the G20/25 still doesn't have is the ability to show 24 FPS BluRay content at 96 FPS for a flicker-free "true cinema" mode. That's still exclusive to the Vs. The G only goes to 48 FPS, which doesn't really work for a lot of people because of perceptible flicker. However, this is a pretty subtle issue, since the G20/25 is as smooth as anything on the market showing film content at 60 FPS using 3:2 pulldown.


There are rumors of a new Z model to be the ultra-high-end 2D for Magnolia and the like, but nothing has been announced, and right now they're putting all their high-end eggs on the V20/25 and 3D.


There's a pretty detailed review of the G25 over in the G20/25 thread. Here's the link. It includes a specific viewing comparison to the S2.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoffo /forum/post/18310971


The rising blacks issue on Panny plasmas is WAY overblown, possibly because some people here think Panasonic tried to keep it under wraps or maybe just because it can be quantified. Unless you're a hyper-tweak and watch most of your TV in a totally dark room, it really isn't going to have any effect on your viewing pleasure.


If I were in your position I'd jump on a 50" G20 or G25 in a heartbeat and never look back. It's within your budget, and the picture is at least as good (or possibly even better) than the V10, last year's consensus "best" plasma.

What he said.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoffo /forum/post/18312107


However, this is a pretty subtle issue, since the G20/25 is as smooth as anything on the market showing film content at 60 FPS using 3:2 pulldown.

I'm glad you said this. I was planning on waiting a bit but my CRT starting dying. I hadn't really considered plasma until reading up on here a bit, but was a bit concerned on this point. We don't watch a ton of movies (maybe more with a better TV), but it sounds like this shouldn't be an issue. (It's all too easy to get caught up in differences in specs when reading about them without seeing the differences in person.) Is the smoothness due to the nature of plasma displays, or how the G20's handling it?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel'son /forum/post/18311302


.. you may still purchase a 58" which would be close to yr failing CRT; either the Panasonic tcp58S1 or the Samsung pn58b550/or/560.


reputable online vendors are still selling; probably even our Sponsors.

Good call.

Just picked up the Samsung PN58B550 for $1350 at HHGregg last week after working out a deal with the Mgr. Normal price was $1869. This week they have it on sale for $1399.


No buzzing and 58" of pure awesomeness (lol if that is a word).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunglebungle /forum/post/18317541


I'm glad you said this. I was planning on waiting a bit but my CRT starting dying. I hadn't really considered plasma until reading up on here a bit, but was a bit concerned on this point. We don't watch a ton of movies (maybe more with a better TV), but it sounds like this shouldn't be an issue. (It's all too easy to get caught up in differences in specs when reading about them without seeing the differences in person.) Is the smoothness due to the nature of plasma displays, or how the G20's handling it?

having owned multiple 60hz and a 120hz LCD TV as well as a CRT RPTV and now a Panny 50X1 720p plasma i will easily back up his statement that watching movies with a 3:2 pulldown on a Plasma is more enjoyable than anything else i've watched movies on thus far.


the judder is not all that noticeable and the reduced motion blur throughout the whole movie more than makes up for it
 
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