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Help-Why do my Definitive BP7001's sound bad?

3760 Views 17 Replies 15 Participants Last post by  Foreigner, 
T
2
About a year ago I purchased a brand new pair of Definitive Technology BP7001SC speakers. The problem is I am not satisfied with the sound I am getting from them. They sound good (but not mind blowing) on some recordings such as Diana Krall's Girl in the Other Room and James Taylor's Hourglass. They even sound good on some earlier remastered recordings like The Band's boxed set. But for many recordings (more rock oriented with lots of guitars and layers of sound), Cd's and LP's, they sound harsh, fatiguing, and the mid range is flat and muddy. My other complaint is on many recordings the vocals sound buried in the mix- not as prominent as they should be. I am running them off a Denon 3805 (120 Watt per channel) receiver. This was one of the top Denon models a couple years ago (replaced by 3806 I think). Receiver was highly rated and seems to work fine. I listen to mainly music and do not yet have surround sound, so I am talking strait 2 channel stereo here. I know a lot of audiophiles say Def Techs are not great for music only but I have also read many glowing reviews of the 7001's for music applications. I am thinking my room may be part or all of the issue. The room is full of hard surfaces- pergo floor with area rugs, sheetrock walls, not that much furniture, no drapes, etc. The dimensions are 27 x 18 feet with a 14' high cathedral ceiling. The system is situated on one end of the 27' wall (1 speaker near corner of room), speakers about 9 feet apart and angled slightly in. The main listening area is about 15-16 feet away (alone the opposite wall) and centered on the speakers. Actually my biggest praise for the speakers is how relatively GOOD they sound in all parts of the room. But they don't sound that GREAT even in the prime listening spot. I have tried facing the subwoofers out vs. in and this does not seem to matter. I have also tried moving the speakers closer and further from the back wall and changing the angle, and this has not cured anything either. Right now they are about 14-16 from back wall. I currently have the speakers connected with 14 gauge speaker wire thru the mid range/ standard hookup method. I tired the subwoofer LFE hookup and this makes no audible diff for music. Overall, they just don't have the WOW factor I was expecting for the price. I actually never heard them before buying. I did audition the smaller 7002 in the store and liked that so figured the 7001 would be even better. And for half price I could not pass them up.


So what do you guys think:

Are the speakers just crappy for music? (how can a 3500.00 speaker by crappy?)

Would bi-amping help the sound to any great degree?

Is the shape of my room the problem, particularly with the bi-polar config?


Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!!

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Q
I would not know how to answer the question, but OT: man that tv looks really old. Place looks great though.
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sivadselim
One criticism of those speakers, although it is probably not the cause of your unhappiness, is their bipolarity. This could be the reason you find the vocals to be "buried in the mix" sometimes as well as a muddy midrange. Also, the eave over the right speaker may cause some weirdness with the rear bipolar drivers of that speaker.


But most likely what you are hearing is a combination of poorer quality recordings (rock albums are not always the best), played back on revealing speakers, through a receiver that can be characterized as being on the "bright" side, and THE ROOM.
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g_bartman
I own 7001's as well. I have found that they reveal a lot of what is put into a recording. Garbage in, garbage out. Some people simply do not like them for music, period. I have mine connected to a mcintosh amplifier thru mit speaker cables. I auditioned some speakers to replace my then 2002tl's (earlier generation 7002's.) I listened to several prominent brands but wound up sticking with dt bipolars. Looks like they are a little too far apart but with your entertainment center that looks like it is not by choice. You could email [email protected] , Chet is very helpful. It all else fails, videogon or ebay 'em. Just because a pair of speakers lists for 3500 does not mean they are for everyone....
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R
That tv has nostalgia written all over it. I've never liked Def Tech for music but they are pretty nice for HT.
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T
As you can see, I put my money in the Audio not Video!! It's a 1986 Philco 26" and it still has a great picture for a non HD tv. A widescreen LCD is in the future but not til I get the sound straightened out!
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T
tuskman- those are to close to the back wall IMO by just looking at the picture. pull them out from the wall slowly until you find a spot they will sound better


However, as a def tech dealer, I find them VERY fatiguing personally for hard rock type music though.


edit- in most rooms, if you are not at least 18" from the back wall, it will tend to muddy the mid range


i see that you have moved them back and forward, I think you may just not like the way def techs sound on certain music. They do better on a "warmer" amplifier to take away some of the fatiguing treble IMO
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A
I would recommend:


1. Pull them off the wall

2. get a better amp
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T
Thanks for everyone's input so far. I will try pulling them further away from the back wall, though realistically I can't pull them out much more without them being in the way (I have 2 young energetic sons). I did pull them out in the past without any noticable inprovement. I can see the right channel under the eve and near the window is in a tough spot. Again, I cannot move it over much as the entertainment center can't really go anywhere else. Would a conventional direct radiating speaker pose less of an issue in this room as would not be firing rearward (ie would not "mind" being close to back wall and close to side wall on one side)? Of the other speakers I auditioned in the store, tke Klipsh RF-83 and Paradigm Studio 100 were the other 2 that I liked the best within my budget. I have a mid level Yamaha CD player (7 year old) connected w/monster cables and 2 turntables, Pioneer PL-518 and Technics SL1700 MKII, both connected with their original integrated patch cords. Could speaker cable be an issue? I am using raw 14 gauge speaker wire, not some exotic cables. I know opionions vary on this topic. Also attached is a photo of the other side of my room showing the couch in front of the half wall. it is 18 feet to the 1/2 wall, another 3 foot to the stairway wall and then another 6 feet or so to the "real" back wall. Thanks!!
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R
1. The speakers are too close to the front wall, but that's minor compared to your other issues.

2. Your listening position is too close to the rear wall.

3. Your room, quite frankly, is pretty poor acoustically speaking. No speaker is going to sound really good in there.


My feeling is that while you may find better speakers (or at least ones more suited to your personal likes), you will not have great sound until you deal with your setup and room acoustics issues.
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Kal Rubinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by rynberg /forum/post/12890214


1. The speakers are too close to the front wall, but that's minor compared to your other issues.

2. Your listening position is too close to the rear wall.

3. Your room, quite frankly, is pretty poor acoustically speaking. No speaker is going to sound really good in there.


My feeling is that while you may find better speakers (or at least ones more suited to your personal likes), you will not have great sound until you deal with your setup and room acoustics issues.
Click to expand...

Amen.
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O
take the music that you like and audition the speakers you mentioned and see if

they sound like what you want then see if the dealer will work with you and see

if you like the results in your home. the studio's worked great for me but they

also like at least a foot of space behind them and 2ft from side walls to sound

there best.
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R
Just because a speaker is High end does NOT mean you have to like them. I prefer the sound of a $100-$500.00 conventional big-box type medium sized floorstander/large bookshelf made for the consumer level than most audiophile type speakers because they seem a bit too Dry-flat-and-boring sounding to me so that's my preference.
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E
Try moving both spkrs on to the carpet.....one on each corner of the carpet, in front of the window. Get heavy curtains. Both spkrs will be under the low ceiling, playing out into the area of the higher ceiling. This will be just fine for stereo listining.
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P
Kinda like real estate - Location, location, location.
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F
I own a pair of 7002s. I compared them in my home against the Polk LSi25 and the klipsch RF-83. In the end I kept the Def Techs. Although I have some of the same complains you do. Especially the recessed vocals. I even hear a fair amount of sibilance on some material. I've tried them with a Denon 3802 and with my Adcom setup consisting of two 555II amps and a 555II preamp. Movies sound fine. I may end up buying separate speakers for music. BTW my room is 13.5x20x10 carpeted floor with an acoustic ceiling. To be honest, Ive looked inside the "grille socks" and the speakers look really cheap. I've wondered if they were worth even half what they cost. Especially the BPX surrounds. When you figure there is not a wood cabinet I expected the speaker components to be really nice. I think the tweeters in particular could use an upgrade. Anyway you do get a powered sub which in my opinion sounds very good so that is how I justify the cost to myself.
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D

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskman79 /forum/post/12876876


The room is full of hard surfaces- pergo floor with area rugs, sheetrock walls, not that much furniture, no drapes, etc.
Click to expand...

This is a big reason why your speakers don't sound good as others have stated. You need room treatments in a big way. Bass traps would help immensely as well.


Bi amping won't make much difference, if any.
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F
While room treatments definitely are important, they are not a cure all. Optimal room acoustics can make speakers sound as good as they are capable of sounding, but cannot change the sonic characteristics of them. Speakers are the one component that can truly have a certain sound. Every speaker design is a compromise having certain strengths and weaknesses. The Def Techs seem to give up focus and clarity to gain a diffuse sound field providing a sense of spaciousness and depth. Because people value certain attributes more than others, they would tend to be drawn to speakers that excel in that particular area. People that like a dynamic focused sound would probably chose a speaker with horn loaded drivers over a direct/reflect design like bi-poles. It doesn't mean one sounds better than the other. Maybe he just doesn't like some of the characteristics of the Bi-polar sound. I know I don't, BUT overall as a total package I found the 7002s to be the best blend of what I wanted among the choices I had. None were perfect and I did give up some things I liked in the other speakers by choosing the Def Techs. The klipsch RF-83 had its good points and so did the Polk Lsi25. It was a pretty hard choice between them because you have to give up something in one speaker to get something else in another. Not to mention that certain speaker types are better suited to certain type of source material. Like he said some recordings sound good while others don't. No one speaker can be great at everything! Anyway, he could have the perfect room and still end up not liking the way the 7001s sound.
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