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Discussion Starter #1

Hey guys! I need some Professional Opinions on this matter!...  And please don't try and skew me and say stuff like "Why would you want 10hz output? blah blah... its useless... blah blah... no material down there..blah blah...   Ok? This is personal goal that i've wanted to accomplish. So If you reply , please help me reach the goal, not go agianst it.. Thank you...   So BASICALLY my goal is to reach 130-140db at 10hz.My goal for this is to play movies with Authority.I dont have neighbors that will complain nor do I have a home owners association so im good there. I have a 1000 sq ft room, space is NOT an issue, HOWEVER i would like to go as small as possible achieving this goal... Money is also not an issue... i have quite a bit of money to play around with... So guys! Help me know what kind of Subs, Box type (Passive,Ported,Sealed,Horn,) I would need to achieve this.... I Already have a buddy who's going to sell me LAB gruppen 14k amps... and i have a custom circuit breaker... so power is not an issue ;) 
 

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Is your room fully sealed? Is it made of wood/drywall or concrete ?
 

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130-140db @ 10hz is going to take alot of displacement. Probably will need atleast 8 UXL 18's in 4-5cfu sealed enclosures. Might not be a bad Idea to look at the behringer Inuke 6000/12000dsp amps. You will need a way to eq and boost the low end some, the dsp amps will give you that. As mentioned above, the type of structure your room is made of will make a big difference too.
 

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Discussion Starter #4

The room is fully sealed... Im pretty sure it is made of drywall/wood ... Yeah i KNEW I would need A LOT of displacement.... Do you think in a sealed environment with eq it will provide more output at 10hz than Low-tuned ported ? .. 
 

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If you want to hit 130 db, then 3 or 4 JTR Orbital shifter will get you there. If you want the extension to 10 Hz, close off part of the space and get some sealed subwoofers or go DYI. You may need four dual 18 or 21 inch .driver subwoofers. I honestly would caution anyone from doing more than a demo scene at those levels. The enemy off something that is very good, is sometimes something better. DYI is the cheapest way to get that kind of spl and you can have the subs sooner than most companies can get you the subs.
 

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Discussion Starter #6

Quote:
Originally Posted by derrickdj1  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output#post_24433563


If you want to hit 130 db, then 3 or 4 JTR Orbital shifter will get you there. If you want the extension to 10 Hz, close off part of the space and get some sealed subwoofers or go DYI. You may need four dual 18 or 21 inch .drivers. I honestly would caution anyone from doing more than a demo scene at those levels. The enemy off something that is very good, is sometimes something better.
Yeah i have no problem hitting 20-30hz at 130-140db ... for me thats not really the issue... is below 20hz where im concerned.. and when you say sealed.. like large sealed with eq? or???? and whats DYI ? haha.. Do it Yourself? ... Yeah i only plan on playing at those levels for when i have A LOT of people over and we want to watch star wars and other movies with authority. :)
 

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If you want 10 Hz or less and small, you really should be looking at sealed DIY. No commercial product out there, that isn't extremely niche, will meet your target. Since you don't have a cost issue and want to keep it small, go for LMS5400's or UXL's in a 3-4 cubic foot boxes powered by 10kW amps. The example you are looking for is NOTNYT who has done this with both sealed and ported in a fairly similar sized room. There are a few other people in this arena as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trepidati0n  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output#post_24433593


If you want 10 Hz or less and small, you really should be looking at sealed DIY. No commercial product out there, that isn't extremely niche, will meet your target. Since you don't have a cost issue and want to keep it small, go for LMS5400's or UXL's in a 3-4 cubic foot boxes powered by 10kW amps. The example you are looking for is NOTNYT who has done this with both sealed and ported in a fairly similar sized room. There are a few other people in this arena as well.
It seems like that might be the best route to go.... I dont want to go IB because i dont have an attic sooo......    I will definitely look at his build to see an idea...So if i go sealed... Which EQ should i go with to really boost the low end?  
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevrod95  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output/0_100#post_24433561


The room is fully sealed... Im pretty sure it is made of drywall/wood ... Yeah i KNEW I would need A LOT of displacement.... Do you think in a sealed environment with eq it will provide more output at 10hz than Low-tuned ported ? .. 

You said smaller is better, LLT's at 10hz are not small. IB would be best or many sealed subs. Ricci's in room of 8 ReXXX's got him 130 dBs at 10hz. He has a big room but not sure 1000 sq feet big. The only way to do it with less drivers is that XXX ported beast. 4 of those will get you 133 dBs in comparison at 10hz.
 

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You will need to look at Infinite Baffle systems, and a whole bunch of sealed subs, or some Thigpen Rotary s. Thigpens Rotarys are something like $20k each, but hey, you say money is not an object, and they supposedly have serious output all the way down to 3 Hz. Personally I would go with a big stack of sealed. A whole bunch of LMS Ultras in some good sized sealed enclosures will do the trick. One more thing, you can get 10 Hz without spending a huge amount, but getting clean playback at 10 Hz is another matter altogether. If you don't care about distortion, it actually won't be a very costly endeavor, however even a little bit of distortion at 10 Hz will overwhelm the fundmental, ie the distortion will be a lot louder than the 10 Hz signal. Getting low distortion 10 Hz at high SPLs will take many tens of thousands of dollars to achieve, it would be pretty cool though.
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by MKtheater  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output#post_24433633



You said smaller is better, LLT's at 10hz are not small. IB would be best or many sealed subs. Ricci's in room of 8 ReXXX's got him 130 dBs at 10hz. He has a big room but not sure 1000 sq feet big. The only way to do it with less drivers is that XXX ported beast. 4 of those will get you 133 dBs in comparison at 10hz.
 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output#post_24433653


You will need to look at Infinite Baffle systems, and a whole bunch of sealed subs, or some Thigpen Rotary s. Thigpens Rotarys are something like $20k each, but hey, you say money is not an object, and they supposedly have serious output all the way down to 3 Hz. Personally I would go with a big stack of sealed. A whole bunch of LMS Ultras in some good sized sealed enclosures will do the trick. One more thing, you can get 10 Hz without spending a huge amount, but getting clean playback at 10 Hz is another matter altogether. If you don't care about distortion, it actually won't be a very costly endeavor, however even a little bit of distortion at 10 Hz will overwhelm the fundmental, ie the distortion will be a lot louder than the 10 Hz signal. Getting low distortion 10 Hz at high SPLs will take many tens of thousands of dollars to achieve, it would be pretty cool though.
 

Right ! smaller is definitely better, however i dont mind making 2-30 cu ft boxes if thats what it takes ..... Thigpen rotarys are out of the question, not because of money, but because of installation, like i said no attic.... Im really leaning towards Sealed LMS ultra with lots of EQ,... as far as distortion.. I really dont mind a little bit of distortion.. its bound to happen... I looked at NOTNYTs build and i noticed he ditched the SEALED setup and went ported? ... Makes me wonder... 
 

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Discussion Starter #12

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output#post_24433653


You will need to look at Infinite Baffle systems, and a whole bunch of sealed subs, or some Thigpen Rotary s. Thigpens Rotarys are something like $20k each, but hey, you say money is not an object, and they supposedly have serious output all the way down to 3 Hz. Personally I would go with a big stack of sealed. A whole bunch of LMS Ultras in some good sized sealed enclosures will do the trick. One more thing, you can get 10 Hz without spending a huge amount, but getting clean playback at 10 Hz is another matter altogether. If you don't care about distortion, it actually won't be a very costly endeavor, however even a little bit of distortion at 10 Hz will overwhelm the fundmental, ie the distortion will be a lot louder than the 10 Hz signal. Getting low distortion 10 Hz at high SPLs will take many tens of thousands of dollars to achieve, it would be pretty cool though.
It seems the LMS ultra option is really the best way to go .... What EQ should i get to really boost the low end?
 

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For what you are proposing to do, you will need a serious EQ. You will need to insure fidelity throughout the entire signal chain. You will need to take this to the DIY forum, as what you want to do is way beyond commercial sub capabilities. Some guys to get in contact with are Bossobass, Notnyt, Josh Ricci, Japandave, and there are others. If you really end up hitting a clean 10 Hz at 130 dB, you will be in an exclusive club of folks. It won't be easy to do, and you will need some help, but that would be an amazing system and a hell of an accomplishment. Just don't expect for it to happen overnight, it will take effort.
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Yeah i do plan on getting in contact with Bossobass! it seems they offer the best EQ for my application, .... How come nobody mentions Pasive Radiator designs though? just curious.. It seems they have the benifits of ported w/o the long tubes for extension.. 
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevrod95  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output#post_24433821


Yeah i do plan on getting in contact with Bossobass! it seems they offer the best EQ for my application, .... How come nobody mentions Pasive Radiator designs though? just curious.. It seems they have the benifits of ported w/o the long tubes for extension.. 

Because PR's rarely have tuning capability to ~10hz. It's more practical to build an LLT like in my sig.
 

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Discussion Starter #18

Hell yeah man ! your build looks awesome!... I honestly think i might just do LLT for better output but im still debating on what to do... How does it sound though? Any distortion? House fall apart? LOL
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevrod95  /t/1520779/help-with-10hz-output#post_24433844


Hell yeah man ! your build looks awesome!... I honestly think i might just do LLT for better output but im still debating on what to do... How does it sound though? Any distortion? House fall apart? LOL

Lol, no, no distortion. The house adds more distortion than anything.


No, an LLT is limited by total input power. Because the way an LLT alignment leverages the use of the huge cabinet it requires little power but uses excursion fast. I used two in my room to pretty much get 120dB from 10hz and up. It was nice. Any SQ issues I had with them had more to do with placement limitations and room related stuff. I had to build the crazy system I have now just to out do them.
 

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Discussion Starter #20

Oh i see. Yeah i did notice excursion rises stupid quick after tuning in WINISD. If i may, Why did you build a new system ? what was wrong with the two LLT?
 
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