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Discussion Starter #1
I'm in the process of completing my first home audio sub build (2 single VBSS) and want to start designing my next, and likely last (for now) sub build. I was just going to stick with the 2 VBSS but I have an open corner and the wife gave me the nod for another box as long as I make a nice looking table out of it.

My 2 VBSS's will be nearfield and this new enclosure will be about 13' from the MLP. I'm looking for a single 18 or 21" ported enclosure with a tune in the 15-18hz area. I want it to help out the VBSS's in the low end.

I'm limited to specific dimensions. I'm working with 20" depth, 30" wide and 28" height.

I currently have an NX3000 that I plan on running each VBSS on their own channel but if there was a driver that would work ok with 1 channel of the NX3000, I could double up the VBSS on 1 channel and use the other channel for this build. That would allow me to spend a little more on the driver, but if that's not feasible I would just pick up another NX3000 for this build, would just have to keep the price of the driver down in the 3-350 range. I have a miniDSP that I would use to integrate everything.

With all that in mind, what would you do with the limited space? Bugdet around 600-800. Consider my situation your blank canvas and live vicariously through me. Paint away Picaso.馃槀
 

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I'm in the process of completing my first home audio sub build (2 single VBSS) and want to start designing my next, and (for now) sub build.
You got that right
 

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You haven't completed your first and already adding more - I think you've entered the rabbit hole lol.

That looks about the size of a Marty Cube and might be kinda small for a 15-18Hz tune. Adding a 3rd sub will add low end. I would have said a UM if the box was larger but I think you'd be better off getting a SAF184.03 which will have about the same low end as a UM in that size of box but quite a bit more midbass and for less money and it's in stock.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
You haven't completed your first and already adding more - I think you've entered the rabbit hole lol.

That looks about the size of a Marty Cube and might be kinda small for a 15-18Hz tune. Adding a 3rd sub will add low end. I would have said a UM if the box was larger but I think you'd be better off getting a SAF184.03 which will have about the same low end as a UM in that size of box but quite a bit more midbass and for less money and it's in stock.
I mean, I MAY be able to add a few inches somewhere but probably no more than 2 or 3 to one dimension. It works out somewhere around 8 or 9 cuFT so what tune would you suggest for the SAF? I'm ok with saving a few bucks. But would I be able to run that off 1 channel of the 3000? If so that would be one of the cheaper options. I thought about squeezing another VBSS in that corner but kind of want to do something different with a touch more on the low end. The VBSS subs will likely be ran with the 20hz tune.
 

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Lol. I really need to focus on that rest of the system after this, mainly the mains need some love. I don't THINK I want to do DIY for this but who knows.
Oh, you probably do grasshopper. Look at the DIYSG offerings, many out of stock now due to issues from suppliers, but well worth the wait (I guess that depends on your current mains...)

 

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I mean, I MAY be able to add a few inches somewhere but probably no more than 2 or 3 to one dimension. It works out somewhere around 8 or 9 cuFT so what tune would you suggest for the SAF? I'm ok with saving a few bucks. But would I be able to run that off 1 channel of the 3000? If so that would be one of the cheaper options. I thought about squeezing another VBSS in that corner but kind of want to do something different with a touch more on the low end. The VBSS subs will likely be ran with the 20hz tune.
Here's a quick comparison based off a rough guess without calculating precise internal volume - VBSS wtih 350W ib green, SAF in blue, & UM in red (both with 900W in 9 cubic foot boxes & 20Hz tuning). All have 20Hz HPFs. The SAF and VBSS are at the top end of their excursion but the UM has some to spare. As far as powering from one channel of the 3000, the UM has a nominal impedance of 4 ohms and the SAF is 8 ohms. The UM has an Re of 4.4 ohms while the SAF is 5.8 ohms so it's hard to say how much of a difference in power the two will receive but the UM would probably fair better with that amp. Either way one channel probably won't drive either to their full potential. The UM will give you more on the low end with a bigger box but if you tune it lower with a smaller box you may run into issues with port length. My assumption is those would be your best options with the box size you are looking in your price range. The SAF and UM definitely give you more extension but looks like the VBSS has the edge in midbass.

3106920
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Here's a quick comparison based off a rough guess without calculating precise internal volume - VBSS wtih 350W ib green, SAF in blue, & UM in red (both with 900W in 9 cubic foot boxes & 20Hz tuning). All have 20Hz HPFs. The SAF and VBSS are at the top end of their excursion but the UM has some to spare. As far as powering from one channel of the 3000, the UM has a nominal impedance of 4 ohms and the SAF is 8 ohms. The UM has an Re of 4.4 ohms while the SAF is 5.8 ohms so it's hard to say how much of a difference in power the two will receive but the UM would probably fair better with that amp. Either way one channel probably won't drive either to their full potential. The UM will give you more on the low end with a bigger box but if you tune it lower with a smaller box you may run into issues with port length. My assumption is those would be your best options with the box size you are looking in your price range. The SAF and UM definitely give you more extension but looks like the VBSS has the edge in midbass.

View attachment 3106920
Good information, thanks. I will recheck that corner and see if I can squeeze a little bigger enclosure in there. I would really like to get a UM in there, something about that surround just does something for me. Lol. Good to know I can run it off one channel of the NX3000, I can always grab another 3000 down the road to drive it to the max. And that would leave me with a spare channel to play with for a BOSS platform or maybe something smaller behind my couch for VNF. I'll check those dimensions again later and see what I come up with.

I doubt any of the diy designs will fit perfectly in that spot so may have to figure out port lengths and the such. I'm used to car audio and we'd always just throw a single big PVC pipe in the box and cut it to length. Precision flared ports may be easier than a slot for custom but still not sure on that either.
 

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I鈥檝e seen people use sonotubes before. Don鈥檛 know much about those but perhaps that could be a consideration. The larger the box the better. A UM in a larger box should mix well with the PA460s since they both pick up where the other leaves off. I think that surround attracts a lot of folks. Looks more menacing than the pro audio drivers which really aren鈥檛 all that appealing from an appearance perspective.
 

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Just re-read the OP. What is it you're looking for that the VBSS don't deliver? Which tune did you go with on the VBSS?

I just skimmed the OP but what is the room? Basement (on concrete floor)? Suspended floor?
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Just re-read the OP. What is it you're looking for that the VBSS don't deliver? Which tune did you go with on the VBSS?

I just skimmed the OP but what is the room? Basement (on concrete floor)? Suspended floor?
Living room, suspended wood floor. Honestly, I have no idea what the VBSS will or will not do yet as I don't even have them completed yet. PA460s won't be here for a few more days. I went with both precision ports for the 20hz and may try the 15hz. Graphs look a little better to me with the 20 but I'll try both.

I'm really not sure what I'm looking for, just a way to utilize that UM in my one available corner that I have. I MAY be able to squeeze a 9cuft box in there at most so I want to make the most of that spot. Open to suggestions.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I鈥檝e seen people use sonotubes before. Don鈥檛 know much about those but perhaps that could be a consideration. The larger the box the better. A UM in a larger box should mix well with the PA460s since they both pick up where the other leaves off. I think that surround attracts a lot of folks. Looks more menacing than the pro audio drivers which really aren鈥檛 all that appealing from an appearance perspective.
Doubt the Sonotubes would blend well with the room. Looking to make a big table for the corner. Pro woofers are downright ugly to me, my VBSS subs will both be downfiring. Lol
 

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Discussion Starter #13
What would be the downfalls of doing a sealed UM to add to the 2 VBSS? I have a miniDSP. Would a sealed need more power than 1 channel of the NX3000 to perform?

I'm just not thinking I could fit am 11cuft enclosure in that corner. I told my wife that it would be bigger than the other boxes. She said "no way, your WAF says no!"

I still might be able to convince her though. Lol
 

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You'll loose a little output down to about 16Hz compared to a 9 cubic foot box but then gain extension. I have no experience with sealed but many have said it's very difficult to integrate sealed and ported. Personally, I think you are better off waiting to get those PA460s and get them dialed in (don't forget the EQ boost suggestions in the VBSS thread around 20Hz to get the most out of those subs). At that point you should have a better idea of what you might be missing or want more of and have a better idea of what kind of response you'll get with your room.
 

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Ya, I'll second the waiting until you see/hear what the vbss units will give ya. Then decide what to add from there.
Especially if the wifey is a bit against it. :) lol
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Ya, I'll second the waiting until you see/hear what the vbss units will give ya. Then decide what to add from there.
Especially if the wifey is a bit against it. :) lol
But...but...but... I can already tell that I need more.

I'll dial in the VBSS subs first and see. I planned on stacking my Klipsch 12s that I already have and trying to get them to all play nice together but was thinking of ditching that idea and using a UM instead.

So I guess I'll ask this. What's the smallest ported you would go with a UM if you were looking for a 17hz tune?
 

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So I guess I'll ask this. What's the smallest ported you would go with a UM if you were looking for a 17hz tune?
Well, according to this handy chart..

a um18 in the martycube design will get you to 18hz tune..
3107495

and the minimarty will get you to 16hz tune.
3107493


So, it looks like minimarty sized, if 17hz is what you are after.
 
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