[saabracer23]

Hey all, I got an ep2500 for my av15h. Right now it's in a sealed 4 cu ft cab. I have a sony str-444 es receiver sending sub out to a cheap behringer mixer (until my mic2200 comes in) then to the amp. It seems the amp clips prematurely. I tried turning the sub volume on the receiver up and messed with the dials on the mixer but it clips. The lights on the mixer are clipping so I think it's sending a clipped signal to the amp


The sub is dual 2 ohm for a total of a 4 ohm load. The amp is bridged so I should be able to get around 2000 watts out of it, but my old 300 watt bash drove the sub harder. After very little play time (with a quite a bit of the clipping light coming on the amp got quite hot. Any thoughts?


Dan

 

[Mpray1983]

Turn the volume down on the receiver trim level and compensate for the loss with the gain of the ep. Look in your manual for your what your RCA voltage output is and report back.

 

[stereo2.0]



Quote:
Originally Posted by saabracer23 /forum/post/20855393


The amp is bridged so I should be able to get around 2000 watts out of it,...

You'll never get a clean signal from the amp if the mixer is sending clipped signals to it. Sounds like either the mixer can't provide a large enough signal to the balanced inputs of the amp, or the amp doesn't have the controls set correctly.


To quote from the EP2500 manual:
"The input, output, gain, filter and limiter controls belonging to channel 1 are used when running in mono-bridged mode. The controls belonging to channel 2 are not used. To prevent signal cancellation due to internal phase inversion, the GAIN control belonging to channel 2 must be turned to its left-most position."


If the channel 2 volume control isn't set to it's minimum position then you'll end up cancelling some of the amps gain, which will cause you to overdrive the mixer and cause it to clip.


If the channel 2 volume control was already set to minimum, well then I guess you'll just have to wait until your MIC2200 arrives before you can drive the amp to its full output, which should be much louder than your 300W BASH amp!


Good luck.

 

[saabracer23]

Well I read my manual and it states the sub out being 2.0 volts. Also the 2nd dial on the amp is at the minimum.


Dan

 

[Mpray1983]



Quote:
Originally Posted by saabracer23 /forum/post/0


Well I read my manual and it states the sub out being 2.0 volts. Also the 2nd dial on the amp is at the minimum.


Dan

That should be fine just turn down your sub trim. Try taking the mixer out of the loop If that doesn't fix it. Any particular reason you are using the mixer?

 

[saabracer23]

Without the mixer I was getting almost nothing, VERY light sound. The signal lights weren't even coming on. So I'm using the mixer to boost the signal. With the mixer I'm getting 1,000 times more output than before but it is still definitely lacking. In that cab I should be able to take it to xmax with 500 watts or so (forgot which frequency it moved the most).


Dan

 

[Mpray1983]

Look into the art cleanbox pro. This is actually made to boost the signal from consumer to pro audio.

 

[exojam]

That amp only needs 1.23 volts for full power. Do you have access to a multimeter to see what your Sony is actually putting out?


James

 

[gperkins1973]

From what I have just seen that is a really basic AV receiver and I doubt it is putting out any where near that. I have an onkyo 876 and that puts out more than enough yet the lower models don't and need to have the signal boosted. Its a shame you can't get hold off a second hand samson s convert. Better than the art cleanbox pro.

 

[beastaudio]

+1 for the cleanbox, I had the same issues with my denon 2311 and now Im running a pair of the cleanbox PRO's and it fixed all of the gain issues I was dealing with

they should be around 65 bucks IIRC

 

[Mpray1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973 From what I have just seen that is a really basic AV receiver and I doubt it is putting out any where near that. I have an onkyo 876 and that puts out more than enough yet the lower models don't and need to have the signal boosted. Its a shame you can't get hold off a second hand samson s convert. Better than the art cleanbox pro.

That is what I thought that 2.0 volts is fine if it is legit. My receiver puts out over 4 volts (integra) and I'm at -14 sub trim. Might be more cost efficient to buy a new receiver and put the signal booster money into that.

 

[gperkins1973]

Very valid point. To get me calibrated to 83db for my sub I set my EP4000 to 22db gain and my sub trim level to +6db so I have loads off input gain.

 

[beastaudio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpray1983 That is what I thought that 2.0 volts is fine if it is legit. My receiver puts out over 4 volts (integra) and I'm at -14 sub trim. Might be more cost efficient to buy a new receiver and put the signal booster money into that.

My AVR is anything BUT a low level deal and it still didnt have enough output (3311). the cleanbox with the gain knob just barely ticked up has my sub amp gain at max, and running a negative 3.5 db trim level in the avr, ive havent seen the clip light come on once... it really has changed the entire system

 

[exojam]

I still believe before he spends any money he should try to locate a multimeter and set his sub trim and mv to max, play a 60 Hz Sine Wave 0 dBFS Reference Signal and see what his output is from the cable of the receiver. It may prove he needs to buy something to boost the signal but it may prove otherwise.


James

 

[gperkins1973]

From various threads I am sure that alot off Denon's suffer from the low level issue. Doesn't the art cleanbox pro need a tweak doing to it as it drops off earlier than the samson.

 

[beastaudio]

Quote:

Originally Posted by exojam I still believe before he spends any money he should try to locate a multimeter and set his sub trim and mv to max, play a 60 Hz Sine Wave 0 dBFS Reference Signal and see what his output is. It may prove he needs to buy something to boost the signal but it may prove otherwise. James

unfortunately I did this and saw +9 volts out on the sub, it was just something between the output from rca to xlr that needed not just an adapter cable, it need the cleanbox to do the conversion. I know that sounds crazy, and I havent read anyone that has seen the exact same scenario, but all i know is I ruled out everything in the chain, it JUST DIDNT WORK with an rca-->xlr cable inline. soon as I did standard RCA to cleanbox, and cleanbox out XLR to amp, it was fixed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973 From various threads I am sure that alot off Denon's suffer from the low level issue. Doesn't the art cleanbox pro need a tweak doing to it as it drops off earlier than the samson.

ART has been very tightlipped about this but from some posts around that ive dug up, and according to ART themselves, this issue has been resolved in the cleanbox PRO the original cleanbox DID have issues where it rolled off after 35hz. on the pro there arent any issues until around 15hz IIRC. I tried to loopthrough, and REW the response, but couldnt get it to work right. Ill revisit when I have more time...

 

[Mpray1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gperkins1973 From various threads I am sure that alot off Denon's suffer from the low level issue. Doesn't the art cleanbox pro need a tweak doing to it as it drops off earlier than the samson.

Ya there is a mod to bring it to 5hz from the 20hz cutoff I believe.

 

[vitod]

Get the mixer out of the line and check the amp to make sure the 30hz and 50hz filters are OFF.

 

[Ricci]

Quote:

Originally Posted by exojam I still believe before he spends any money he should try to locate a multimeter and set his sub trim and mv to max, play a 60 Hz Sine Wave 0 dBFS Reference Signal and see what his output is. It may prove he needs to buy something to boost the signal but it may prove otherwise. James

+1


If you can get enough voltage to clip your amp you are good.


Or you can simply calibrate your subs to 75db. If you want it +10db hot calibrate to 85 db instead.


If you can meet either of these methods, you do not need a signal booster. It really is that simple. I think the main problem is that signal/gain structure and signal types and indicators are misunderstood a lot.

 

[saabracer23]

Alright well it looks as though I have some work to do when I get home. I think it would be odd that I would need a art or Samson box as I see threads by people asking if they should go with the Samson or mic2200 as a booster. It would be pretty weak if I needed a signal booster for the signal booster that is for the amp. Pretty much every receiver I have used (many higher end yamahas)has had this issue of not enough voltage. I once had a cheapo aiwa boombox that had a sub out that was able to power the ep2500. As an FYI I'm using all 1/4 plugs, no xlr plugs


Dan