AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 15 of 15 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am in the process of finishing my HT setup, and have a question for someone experienced in the area of in-ceiling speakers. I have everything set up in my basement which is finished and has a drop ceiling. I have a set of NHT CS 8.3's serving as rear surrounds. I got these mounted into the ceiling tiles no problem and they are working great, but is there anything I can do to insulate behind/around them to keep sound from coming through the floor? I read in the manual that some insulation may be put behind them, but I was looking for some a little more user friendly to stick up there. Any ideas??? Thanks in advance.


BTW, this is my first post on this forum. I've been reading through threads for about a week now, researching HT hardware. I belong to a similar forum for digitial photagraphy ( www.dpreview.com ), and it has been very beneficial, and I'm looking forward to the same experience here.


Thanks,


Jon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,062 Posts
Jon,


I think you will be very pleased with the amount of great information you find here in this forum. Unfortunately it won't be from me on this topic, as I have been wondering the same thing.


I am interested to hear, how much sound actually goes through your floor? Does it vibrate enough to reach other rooms, or just the one directly above the speakers?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I can actually here in the rooms around above where the speakers are placed. It really wouldn't bother me that much, except I can see my wife complaining already about not being able to hear Oprah and Dr. Phil. They are located right beneath the family room floor, but I can also hear them in my office which is right next to the family room. I guess as with anything, there are tradeoffs involved with each option. Although, I think this cost far outweighs having the NHT SB-2's haning off the side of the walls.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
212 Posts
Insulating with a roll of R19 5-6 inches thick on the tile that you have your speaker mounted, will tighten up your bass response a little and keep sound from going into the upper floor as well. You can just lay the insulation fiber side down against the top of the speaker as long as it doesn't interfere with the cone movement to create a buzz. Equally effective and probably prefered would be filling the space above the speaker, starting against the upper floor and filling it with as much as is needed to produce the insulating effect needed. This keeps the fiber away from the speaker and is easier to add more thickness since it isn't resting on the speaker.


Polyfill (Pillow stuffing) available in the craft dept. at Walmart for $2 would also be easy to use and less itchy.


You can also stuff a soft pillow or blanket up in the space and see if it helps, before you buy .


DG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
DG,


Many thanks for your reply. I'm pretty stoked right now as I just got that ceiling speaker wired fished down behind the wall and out into the receiver. I was also able to run the satellite cable that was sticking out like a sore thumb down with it; all because the schmuck DSS guy said that there was concrete back right up against the drywall. Anyway, thanks again, and I'll try out some of those options tomorrow. One step at a time.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,488 Posts
I don't know if you can do this, but gluing ceramic floor tiles above the speakers to the bottom of the floor and also to the sheet rock around the speaker will really dampen things a lot. Use liquid nails. I often do this above and below in-wall speakers to deaden sheetrock. Then wad up insulation real tight and JAM it around the speaker so that it makes a virtual enclosure, but leave the speaker some space. Of course, my ceilings with my CS-8.3s are 1" thick concrete plaster so it doesn't move much or transfer much energy. It just was a hassle putting them in (2 sawzall blades per hole!)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
John,


Thanks for the input. I might try the ceramic tile above the speakers, but since it is a drop ceiling, I think the weight would get the best of the ceiling tiles. Have you been pretty happy with your 8.3's? I have the rest of my speaker setup rounded out with a pair of T5's and a M5 center. I checked out your website and noticed your shop carries NHT. I was just AMAZED at the T5's. It seems like they just sell themselves to you. Anyway, thanks again for the input.


-Jon
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
Jon,

First of all welcome to the forum, you will find a wealth of information on this website it has helped me considerably with both of my home theater setups. Have you visited the home theater construction section of this forum? There are lots of people with similar questions and answers.

In response to your question I beleive the best answer to your question would be to insulate with rock wool. It is available in 3 and 4 inch thicknesses and is much denser than normal insulation and a much better sound attenuator. It is used in commercial building applications for just that reason. Also it is used as fire proofing around pipes and other penetrations between floors on commercial buildings. As an added bonus it is fairly rigid enough that you could use it to box out around your speaker with a little innovation on your part to hold it together.


Once again welcome to this forum and happy home theatering to you,

Rick
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,900 Posts
Ah, all that work to create a sophisticated band aid...


There are very, very few brands of inwall and inceiling speakers that are not open back. Some of those company(s) make all their inwall speakers with fully engineered and braced enclosures (not flimsy back boxes) for predictable results and no bleeding into adjacent rooms. Of course, they cost more. But just look at what you're going through to make up for the problem caused by an open-back speaker.


A back box added to an open back speaker will alter the speaker's "q." You can't just guess at the size. Dacron will not stop frequencies below 500 Hz or so, nor will foam. I try to withhold comments on open-back speakers, but performance of any speaker is arbitrary without a sturdy engineered cabinet. This is an area of audio that is almost universally ignored out of habit and low cost. I was designing and selling custom home systems in the '70s when there weren't inwall speakers, so we used open-back high end CAR speakers, and not much has changed...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Paul,


I know I'm new to this forum and all, but I didn't fall off the turnip cart yesterday. I naturally checked out your company's website and noticed all the nice enclosures around your in-wall/ceiling speakers. Well, I'm sticking with NHT's all the way around, and I personally don't mind working with this stuff and getting my hands a little dirty to create a good solution for a small problem. I know speakers are a totally personal preference and all, but I'd put my NHT's (entire setup) up against anything else in the price range I paid for them. Also, if you want people to check out your website and products, why not just come out and say, "Hey, my company offers a solution for this kind of problem, check it out at www.xyzpeaker.com, thought you might be interested." I felt like I was in Ultimate Electronics there for a second. Nothing personal at all, just a little friendly advice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,062 Posts
DJ_JohhyV,


Any time you ask a question about in wall/ceiling speakers you can expect Paul to comment. In fact I think he is a welcome addition to the discussion of in-wall speakers. His intention is never to offend, even if his posts do seem a bit "I told you so." He works for a GREAT company that makes GREAT speakers. Because of the extra quality of their speakers the cost is quite a bit higher than most (although most don't come close to the standards of Triad).


Most people here agree that Triad speakers are built well and arguably the best in-wall solution available. Unfortunately, the best solution is often the most expensive which tends to be the case with Triad.


I woudn't take any offense to Pauls post. I'm sure he didn't mean any harm.


I'm in the process of looking for in-ceiling speakers now, but triads, as much as I want them, are out of my price range. At least I think so--------Hey Paul, can I get a pair of Triad In Ceiling speakers for $600? If not, do I have any other options?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,488 Posts
That's the issue is that doing it "right" would have all in-walls in tuned enclosures. However, doing it "right" wouldn't have speakers in the wall at ALL. NHT and other companies realize that in-wall/in-ceiling speakers are heavily compromised from the beginning and so keep the price reasonable is of paramount importance. Of course, Paul caters to the high-end and Triad's stuff cost much more and will provide more consistent and generally superior results. NHT's in-ceiling speakers retail from $199-$499/pr. With all the engineering required to do it right would probably have them at twice the price. However, with a little elbow grease, you can definitely make improvements. Drop ceilings are tough. My recommendation would be to replace it. However, you can also make sure it is heavily supported and buy MDF panels at Home Despot or wherever and paint those and place them in the drop ceiling. Just add more wiring for support and use a little thinner panel, maybe 3/8" for most panels and 3/4" for the ones containing the speakers. As I mentioned, I have 1/2" plasterboard covered by 1/2" concrete plaster. Very rigid and so I have excellent sound (for in-ceilings). The CS-8.3s do a great job of "floating" the image below the ceiling and produce sound at about 60 degrees off axis very well. Also, you could replace the entire ceiling for the cost of most back boxes! And you should do something. Drop ceilings suck acoustically, mainly in the bass which will also impact the T5s prodigious bass.


As an aside (unsolicited plug alert!!!), I also have NHT T5s and, while I sell stuff costing 10 times as much, this is what I chose for my home. Amazing. The low price allows me to pursue other hobbies!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,086 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
John,


Thanks again for the ideas. I'm making a run to Lowe's this afternoon to pick up some of these supplies. I'm gonna have to do the best I can with what I got. I can't do much about the drop ceiling. If I told my wife that I was going to replace that ceiling, I think she would throw one of my T5's at me (she's only 5'1", buck-ten). I had to talk like a Dutch uncle just to get the speakers. I am going to try some of your ideas though, and I'll let you know how they turn out.


And, ntode, I understand that Paul is probably a good resource to have around, and has a lot to contribute. I guess I just got a little fired up there. Again, thanks to all for their input and I'll try to report back what I have done along with benefit.


Thanks.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,488 Posts
One more thing, you COULD just do a simple box, and you could e-mail NHT for the specs. You'd want to reinforce the area around the speakers with four tie wires and then buy soem 1/2"to 3/4" MDF and cut it into 6 pieces, liquid nail it together, put a hole in it, paint it and drop it in. Put a hole in it for the wire, pass it through, seal it with some glue, well, better expansion foam in case you need to remove it. If you can't fix the whole drop ceiling, just fix the one panel. I'd expect the 8.3 to work in about a 1 cubic foot enclosure, but NHT would know best. www.nhthifi.com Or e-mail me and I'll get the info for you. [email protected]
 
1 - 15 of 15 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top