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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all, I'm looking to make some additions to my MoCA network and have some things I am unsure about. Here is the layout of my current setup:



This is what I am looking to achieve:



So I have some questions, I just switched over to Comcast and the tech that came out had trouble getting the "X1 Set Top Box" to work, the length of this run is pretty long but I had no issues with the Verizon box that was previously connected to it although as I understand it, the X1 Box seems to require a stronger signal to function since it pulls more data for apps and other features that the Verizon box did not have. The picture below reflects the original layout I had with Verizon, the Comcast tech attempted this layout with the 4-way splitter at 7db and the X1 Box wouldn't work, he then tested the lines strength and told me it was not good, I think the result was something like -20db.



So he switched out the 4-way splitter for a 3-way splitter which has (2) 7db outs and (1) 3.5db out which he connected the long run to and this did the trick. He connected a 2-way splitter to one of the 7db out to compensate for the missing fourth out of the 3-way splitter and ended up with this which is what I currently have:



Again, this is what I am planning on doing:



Ok, so here come the questions. What I want to understand is why did switching out the 7db out to a 3.5db out for the long cable run make such a difference? (I believe the test went from -20 to -3) Also, the TiVo Mini is currently connected through MoCA and works fine but should I switch out all of these splitters as they are only 5-1002MHz? Shouldn't they be higher for MoCA? I'm a believer of if it ain't broke don't fix it but since I am getting the MoCA Wi-Fi extender and the Coax Adapter to hard wire some PC's I want to make sure I'm getting the optimal speed. What should I do? Lastly, should I stick with the 3-way splitter or find a 4-way splitter that has a 3.5db out so that the longer cable run works and I am able to eliminate one 2-way splitter from the mix? The whole 7db, 3.5db thing confuses me can someone explain? My head is spinning :)
 

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  • First you need to start with a MoCA PoE filter at the main cable drop, where it comes into your house. If you fail to do this you will open yourself to the possibility of giving the rest of your neighborhood access to your network and PC's.
  • MoCA return loss should be < 3dB from 1125MHz - 1525MHz.
  • Any and all splitters will be required to pass a minimum of 1525MHz or you will block the network for MoCA.
  • Any amplifier used in the network must also be able to pass a minimum of 1525MHz or it too will block the MoCA signal.
  • Your first MoCA adapter must be connected to your router. This point seems to get lost by virtually everyone who posts here asking for help or an approval of their layout.
You can search this site for setup, it's been explained many times, or a Google search will explain the required setup.


Answering your question: "Ok, so here come the questions. What I want to understand is why did switching out the 7db out to a 3.5db out for the long cable run make such a difference? "

Your 3-way splitter is actually two 3.5dB 2-way splitters in one unit. One leg of the 2-way has a 3.5dB tap and the other leg feeds the other 3.5dB splitter. That makes the second 3.5dB splitter sum to a 7dB drop in signal strength. In other words the 3.5dB is a stronger signal for the longer run.


You should try to avoid cascading splitters as you increase insertion loss.
 

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MOCA setups can still work with 5-1002 MHz splitters, YMMV of course and it depends on the equipment involved. I have multiple Netgear MOCA adapters in my home. The user guide stated the network frequency range used was between 775-1525 MHz. I've performed network speed tests with 5-1002 and 5-1500 MHz splitters and saw no difference in performance. Be prepared to swap out to splitters with the recommended ranges of your equipment if you run into connectivity issues.

You can eliminate the second splitter in your setup by connecting the TIVO mini behind the ECB3500T if the model you have actually has the cable out port. I tested the ECB3500Ts a couple months ago and the models I received didn't.

As b curry said, also make sure one of your MOCA adapters is connected to your router if you require connectivity to the Internet for your MOCA network.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Good news! I received all of my equipment today and configured it exactly like my diagram and everything works perfectly! Speedtest.net tests are averaging 125Mbps down through hard wired connections at all three points (router, ECB3500 and WCB3000). Wireless performance is also great also about 125Mpbs throughout all rooms on floors 1 and 2 of my home (wirelessly connecting to the Xfinity router) and about 75Mbps in the basement/ground floor/backyard connecting to the WCB3000 access point. (could be more I have to double check tomorrow).

I did a test and switched the cable going to the Tivo/Xfinity router from the 7db out and put it on the 3.5db out and the speed did not change, however putting the long run that goes to the X1 set top box/WCB3000 on the 7db out did impact the speed of those devices so I put it back to the 3.5db out. What's funny is that the wired speed test on the long run is actually the best in the house at about 130Mbps.

About the PoE filter, I remember the Comcast tech mention something about installing a filter when he was up on the pole, could this be a PoE filter? Could he have indeed installed it up on the pole at the beginning of my drop?
 

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Also, the TiVo Mini is currently connected through MoCA and works fine
I'm looking to do something similar, and am wondering...

Your Mini currently connects to your network (and beyond) via the MoCA segment, but which device in your setup is bridging MoCA back to Ethernet (and the Internet)?

Thanks!

edit: Oh, p.s. Also, what model is your Xfinity router/gateway?
 

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About the PoE filter, I remember the Comcast tech mention something about installing a filter when he was up on the pole, could this be a PoE filter? Could he have indeed installed it up on the pole at the beginning of my drop?
Yes, he very well could have, and given you are an Xfinity X1 TV install, I would both hope and expect that he did -- though I don't know of any way to verify it other than eyeballs.
 

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What's funny is that the wired speed test on the long run is actually the best in the house at about 130Mbps.
That devices wired to your WCB3000N are hitting 130Mbps and are faster than those wired to your ECB3500T01 isn't surprising, since the WCB3000N has 2 GigE ports, rated 1000Mbps, likely allowing the connected devices to communicate as fast as your MoCA 1.1 equipment will allow -- while the ECB3500T01 has 4 FastE ports, rated 100Mbps, capping any connected devices below the MoCA 1.1 max rates.

Actually, I would think no devices wired through the ECB3500T01 would exceed 100Mbps in your testing.

That said, I'm very surprised that devices wired through the WCB3000N are testing faster than a device wired directly into your router. Most illogical.
 

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Hmmm... In a mixed setup like this, you have 3 different vendors with MoCA bridging technology installed: Xfinity, Actiontec & TiVo.

Is there any way to tell how many logical MoCA networks are present on a coax line, and how can you tell to which MoCA channel each adapter is assigned? e.g. It's my understanding that the X1 DVR has a cable modem built-in and that it also projects MoCA. Is it possible that one of your MoCA adapters could attach to the X1, so any connected devices would see the X1 DVR as their Internet gateway?
 

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Speedtest.net tests are averaging 125Mbps down through hard wired connections at all three points (router, ECB3500 and WCB3000). Wireless performance is also great also about 125Mpbs throughout all rooms on floors 1 and 2 of my home (wirelessly connecting to the Xfinity router) and about 75Mbps in the basement/ground floor/backyard connecting to the WCB3000 access point. (could be more I have to double check tomorrow).
FYI... Should you want to test the effective speeds on your LAN, rather than at what rates different points on your LAN can hit on the Internet, you may want to try out tools like LAN Speed Test.
 

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That devices wired to your WCB3000N are hitting 130Mbps and are faster than those wired to your ECB3500T01 isn't surprising, since the WCB3000N has 2 GigE ports, rated 1000Mbps, likely allowing the connected devices to communicate as fast as your MoCA 1.1 equipment will allow -- while the ECB3500T01 has 4 FastE ports, rated 100Mbps, capping any connected devices below the MoCA 1.1 max rates.

Actually, I would think no devices wired through the ECB3500T01 would exceed 100Mbps in your testing.

That said, I'm very surprised that devices wired through the WCB3000N are testing faster than a device wired directly into your router. Most illogical.
I thought the latest versions of the ECB3500T01 had GigE ports? At least it's listed that way on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/ACTIONTEC-Theater-Network-Adapter-ECB3500T01/dp/B00CZ6WC3A
 

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I thought the latest versions of the ECB3500T01 had GigE ports? At least it's listed that way on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/ACTIONTEC-Theater-Network-Adapter-ECB3500T01/dp/B00CZ6WC3A
Well, that's hopeful, then. I was going off Actiontec's specs on their website for the ECB3500T01.

I'm definitely leaning towards the Actiontec page being outdated, given several other vendors also indicate GigE support, the Amazon description obviously NOT being a simple typo -- and the Amazon product image clearly showing the "GigE" label for the 4 LAN ports. And now that I'm looking more closely, the "high res" image for the ECB3500T01 on Actiontec's web page ALSO shows the 'GigE' label for the LAN ports.

Sold! And thank you, fcsmith.

p.s. Given the slightly more attenuated signal the OP has at the ECB3500T01, I suppose that might explain why attached devices might be slower than the longer run -- but I'm still baffled as to why devices on that run would be faster than devices directly attached to the router. (edit: On the other hand, since the broadband speed is lower than the theoretical MoCA speeds, the broadband speed tests aren't really determinant of individual segment LAN speeds.)

edit: p.p.s. FYI... MicroCenter has the ECB3500T01 on sale for $60, for in-store pick-up only.
 

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  • Your first MoCA adapter must be connected to your router. This point seems to get lost by virtually everyone who posts here asking for help or an approval of their layout.
FYI, many of the new Xfinity modem/router combos feature a built-in MoCA adaptor on the same coax jack as the DOCSIS modem, so many users get away without following/knowing of your very important bullet point.
 

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I thought the latest versions of the ECB3500T01 had GigE ports? At least it's listed that way on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/ACTIONTEC-Theater-Network-Adapter-ECB3500T01/dp/B00CZ6WC3A
Man, I'm trying to get Actiontec support to recognize the conflicting information between their site and basically every vendor, but it's tough.

Your question was:
=========================
Simply, I am trying to determine whether the LAN ports on my ECB3500T01 Multi-band MoCA Network Adapter are Gigabit (1000Mbps) or FastEthernet (100Mbps). The product specs on the Actiontec website state that the ports are FastEthernet, while the Amazon product description and some reviews indicate that the ports are Gigabit.

Actiontec
http://www.actiontec.com/257.html

Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/ACTIONTEC-Theater-Network-Adapter-ECB3500T01/dp/B00CZ6WC3A

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Actiontec Support Team’s response is:
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They are 10\100 fast ethernet ports.
Here are the tech specs.
http://www.actiontec.com/257.html
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They reply w/ the same URL I'd already emailed to them.

The followup...
Thank you for the reply. And, yes, that's the Actiontec product page that I included in my original submission; however, you'll note that the "FastEthernet" information on that page conflicts not only with the Amazon, CDW & MicroCenter product descriptions for the product, but it also is in conflict with the "high res" product image on the very web page referenced.

You'll notice that the label on the front of the device pictured says "GigE."

???
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Actiontec Support Team’s response is:
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Don't know why they would put up false information on their site, but then we don't have control over what other companies put on their websites.
The ports are 10\100 fast ethernet ports.
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A bit snarky in that response, I thought, but I cut 'em some slack, and sent one more email asking them to simply click on the "High Res Photos" button on their own product page and explain why the image labels the LAN ports "GigE."

I'm currently awaiting their response, but may drive down to MicroCenter to grab the darn thing and figure it out for myself.

Thanks, again, fcsmith. Thanks not so much, Actiontec emailer.
 

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Confirmation! They're Gigabit...

=========================
Dear Actiontec Support, please click on the "High Res Photos" button for your ECB35000T01 product on YOUR OWN web page, at the location referenced:

http://www.actiontec.com/257.html

Can you explain why the image labels the LAN ports as "GigE"?

Thank you.

Regards, ...
=========================

Actiontec Support Team’s response is:
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Totally apologize for all the confusion. There is an error on our website, the ports are in fact Gigabit ports. We contacted the engineering department to clarify this, and yes, the ports are gigabit auto negotiating ports.
=========================
Nice that they apologized for the "confusion," but no mention of the attitude. :)
 

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[/LIST]
FYI, many of the new Xfinity modem/router combos feature a built-in MoCA adaptor on the same coax jack as the DOCSIS modem, so many users get away without following/knowing of your very important bullet point.
Right, that's one reason I was asking the OP about their connections. My concern is that people may hook-up a TiVo to establish a MoCA segment (connecting both the coax and Ethernet cable to the router, and enabling Ethernet+MoCA in the TiVO UI), while also having MoCA enabled in their Xfinity Gateway -- and maybe even having a MoCA adapter with both coax/Ethernet connections established.

I'm really curious what would happen in such a circumstance, and how it would affect performance.
 

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[/LIST]FYI, many of the new Xfinity modem/router combos feature a built-in MoCA adaptor on the same coax jack as the DOCSIS modem, so many users get away without following/knowing of your very important bullet point.

Thanks, yes I'm aware of this and perhaps I could have worded my reply a little different for consideration of the Xfinity device.


MoCA is essentially a duplex modulator-demodulator system and so many people fail to realize that you must first modulate the incoming signal before distribution. The funny part is that this information is staring them in the face with the paper that comes in the box and they post to a forum for help because they fail to RTFM.
 

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[/LIST]
FYI, many of the new Xfinity modem/router combos feature a built-in MoCA adaptor on the same coax jack as the DOCSIS modem, so many users get away without following/knowing of your very important bullet point.

Hi, Would you know after i turn on moca in my Xfinity modem settings will a tivo mini work? Or do i need to buy anything more to make it work? thanks for any info
 

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Hi, Would you know after i turn on moca in my Xfinity modem settings will a tivo mini work? Or do i need to buy anything more to make it work? thanks for any info
Tivo Mini comes with built-in MoCa so there is no additional adapter needed for it to participate on a MoCa network and get its feed from a Tivo that is also connected to the same Moca network.
 
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