[whitetrash66]

Well, after asking a pile of questions on here about pretty much every topic imaginable, this weeked i moved my AV stuff around and took pics of my screen area.


In the pics, i used green tape to label the size of screens, and my main seating spot is where i took the photos from. Seating area goes about 7' on either side of me. The TV in the pic is a 63" samsung, so as you can see, either screen is much bigger.


*don't mind the crappy quality, it's a phone pic

The wider taped area is screen of 129" 2.40, measuring 119x50

The taller narrower screen is a 113" 16x9 measuring 111x62


Because of the crappy lighting not pictured, and the white drop ceiling i don't want to paint (68 2'x4' tiles, not painting that!), i have decided to go with a Screen Innovations Black Diamond III screen with a 1.4 gain. My projector is undecided, but i want something that does 3D, so possibly the RS40/its successor, or the sony VW90/its successor.



NOTE: i only went with a 113" 16x9 screen, as that is the max size Screen Innovations makes for its Black Diamond line




My questions...


1) Will the 129" screen be too dim for most with a similar projector to the RS40/VW90 once zoomed in to fit the 2.40 area? i would like to use the projector at close throw, and then i can zoom out for a 103" 16x9 image.


2)How much brighter would the 16x9 screen be in the 113" 16x9 instead of the 129" 2.40 screen?


3) my uses are basically 40% blu rays, 40% gaming with Xbox 360/PC, and 20% TV (movies, UFC, etc). Would the 2.35 or 16x9 be more appropriate for my use?


4) If 3D is dim in the 2.40 129" screen, i can always zoom it in to the 103" 16x9 and watch it like that, correct?


Any advice/input is appreciated.

 

[Ron Jones]

With the 113" 16x9 screen with a gain of 1.4 you will get around 30 foot lamberts from a RS40 (calibrated and in 2D mode) with the lamp set to high mode and the iris fully open. This is well above the recommend 16 ftL for a theater with good light control. Going to a 129" 2.40 aspect ratio screen and using the zoom method on the projector would drop you to about 20 ftL in 2D mode. These values are for a relative new lamp in the projector where you will be getting 800 lumens out of the projector. As the bulb gets some hours on it the image brightness will drop.


A few additional things or questions to consider are:

• What is your viewing distance from the screen?

• What is the projector to screen throw distance? (you will need close to 14 ft. as the minimum to fill the scope screen and longer throw distances produce a dimmer image than shorter throw distances)

• The rated screen gain of 1.4 applies when you are seated directly in front of the screen and falls off as you move toward the sides of the room. You say "Seating area goes about 7' on either side of me" it sound like you have a very wide seating area (14 ft. wide?) so the viewers at the end may see a dimmer image than those in the center.

• As for 3D image brightness, the JVC RS40 projects horizontally polarized light and if you use a screen that retains a lot of the polarization then you will get an effective boost in gain when viewed with the JVC 3D glasses (that have the same horizontal polarization). However, with such a screen you will not want to use universal 3D glasses that have the wrong (i.e., vertical) polarization (e.g., Xpand or Monster). One AVS member tested a Black Diamond II screen and reported that it retained a lot of polarization, but I have not seen any test results for the BD III screen material. HERE is the thread that discusses screens for 3D projection. I don't have any firm information yet on to what extend the Sony VW90, or their new HW30ES, projected light is polarized and how is the polarization oriented.

 

[whitetrash66]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/20769674


With the 113" 16x9 screen with a gain of 1.4 you will get around 30 foot lamberts from a RS40 (calibrated and in 2D mode) with the lamp set to high mode and the iris fully open. This is well above the recommend 16 ftL for a theater with good light control. Going to a 129" 2.40 aspect ratio screen and using the zoom method on the projector would drop you to about 20 ftL in 2D mode. These values are for a relative new lamp in the projector where you will be getting 800 lumens out of the projector. As the bulb gets some hours on it the image brightness will drop.


A few additional things or questions to consider are:

• What is your viewing distance from the screen?

• What is the projector to screen throw distance? (you will need close to 14 ft. as the minimum to fill the scope screen and longer throw distances produce a dimmer image than shorter throw distances)

• The rated screen gain of 1.4 applies when you are seated directly in front of the screen and falls off as you move toward the sides of the room. You say "Seating area goes about 7' on either side of me" it sound like you have a very wide seating area (14 ft. wide?) so the viewers at the end may see a dimmer image than those in the center.

• As for 3D image brightness, the JVC RS40 projects horizontally polarized light and if you use a screen that retains a lot of the polarization then you will get an effective boost in gain when viewed with the JVC 3D glasses (that have the same horizontal polarization). However, with such a screen you will not want to use universal 3D glasses that have the wrong (i.e., vertical) polarization (e.g., Xpand or Monster). One AVS member tested a Black Diamond II screen and reported that it retained a lot of polarization, but I have not seen any test results for the BD III screen material. HERE is the thread that discusses screens for 3D projection.

Thanks for the numbers.


- Center seat is exactly 12 feet from the screen

- I can place the projector BASICALLY anywhere on the ceiling. The room is 24 feet long. It's a drop ceiling with one florescent source of lighting, but that shouldn't be in the way. I think i would prefer a fairly close throw for the 3D brightness issue

- Seating area is a couch in the middle of the screen 12 feet back, and one recliner 7 feet to the left. The seating area is wide. The 1.4 black diamond has a half-gain angle of 55 degrees.

- I do currently own some xpand x103s for my plasma, and i was letting that sway my purchase away from JVC, but i would rather sell those and get proper glasses if i end up going with a differently polarized projector. The Sony is actually quite a bit brighter with the Xpands and a polarized screen.


So at 129" 2.40, i would be getting approx 20 ftl from an RS40. Would this be considered appropriately bright for extended viewing? In my case, would you go with the 129" 2.40 or 113" 16x9?

 

[mjg100]

Using the zoom method for a 129" 2.40 screen is like lighting up a 136" 16:9 screen. From what I have read the RS40 can give you around 800 calibrated D65 lumens with a new lamp using high lamp mode. With a 1.4 gain BD screen that is 20 foot lamberts. Plenty bright with a new lamp, but at half lamp you will have to one of the brighter modes. With projectors, you have to pick your poison. Smaller screen and you can get more lamp life at D65 at the cost of image size. Larger image and get less time of D65 image or increased cost for lamps, but you get a huge image. As I said only you can decide what you want most.


Added

Ron posted while I was typing a response. From what I read two poster have measured their RS40 in normal lamp and D65. One reported 800 lumens and the other reported 790 lumens. Before calibration, they reported around 1100 lumens. Forgot that OPer is going to close mount. That will increase the lumens.

 

[mjg100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 /forum/post/20769731


Thanks for the numbers.


- Distance from the screen is exactly 12 feet.

- I can place the projector BASICALLY anywhere on the ceiling. It's a drop ceiling with one florescent source of lighting, but that shouldn't be in the way. I think i would prefer a fairly close throw for the 3D brightness issue

- Seating area is a couch in the middle of the screen 12 feet back, and one recliner 7 feet to the left. The seating area is wide. The 1.4 black diamond has a half-gain angle of 55 degrees.

- I do currently own some xpand x103s for my plasma, and i was letting that sway my purchase away from JVC, but i would rather sell those and get proper glasses if i end up going with a differently polarized projector. The Sony is actually quite a bit brighter with the Xpands and a polarized screen.


So at 129" 2.40, i would be getting approx 20 ftl from an RS40. Would this be considered appropriately bright for extended viewing? In my case, would you go with the 129" 2.40 or 113" 16x9?

You can't get a 129" 2.40 screen with only 12' of throw using the RS40. Max size at 12' throw is right around 115".

 

[whitetrash66]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 /forum/post/20769772


You can't get a 129" 2.40 screen with only 12' of throw using the RS40. Max size at 12' throw is right around 115".

Sorry, i should have been more specific. my seating distance is 12 feet. I can mount the projector as far back as 24 feet from the screen. I will edit my original post to say that too

 

[Ron Jones]



Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 /forum/post/20769731


Thanks for the numbers.


- Center seat is exactly 12 feet from the screen

- I can place the projector BASICALLY anywhere on the ceiling. The room is 24 feet long. It's a drop ceiling with one florescent source of lighting, but that shouldn't be in the way. I think i would prefer a fairly close throw for the 3D brightness issue

- Seating area is a couch in the middle of the screen 12 feet back, and one recliner 7 feet to the left. The seating area is wide. The 1.4 black diamond has a half-gain angle of 55 degrees.

- I do currently own some xpand x103s for my plasma, and i was letting that sway my purchase away from JVC, but i would rather sell those and get proper glasses if i end up going with a differently polarized projector. The Sony is actually quite a bit brighter with the Xpands and a polarized screen.


So at 129" 2.40, i would be getting approx 20 ftl from an RS40. Would this be considered appropriately bright for extended viewing? In my case, would you go with the 129" 2.40 or 113" 16x9?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 /forum/post/20769749


Using the zoom method for a 129" 2.40 screen is like lighting up a 136" 16:9 screen. From what I have read the RS40 can give you around 800 calibrated D65 lumens with a new lamp using high lamp mode. With a 1.4 gain BD screen that is 20 foot lamberts. Plenty bright with a new lamp, but at half lamp you will have to one of the brighter modes. With projectors, you have to pick your poison. Smaller screen and you can get more lamp life at D65 at the cost of image size. Larger image and get less time of D65 image or increased cost for lamps, but you get a huge image. As I said only you can decide what you want most.


Added

Ron posted while I was typing a response. From what I read two poster have measured their RS40 in normal lamp and D65. One reported 800 lumens and the other reported 790 lumens. Before calibration, they reported around 1100 lumens. Forgot that OPer is going to close mount. That will increase the lumens.

My RS40 with about 50 hours on the lamp, after calibration and with fairly short throw measured about 800 ANSI lumens (the the average of 9 points). Of course the peak lumens (just the center screen measurement) was closer to 900 lumens. This was in high lamp mode and with the iris fully open. My results were very similar to what Ekki reported in the review of the X3 published on the cine4home web site.


The Projector Reviews tests ( HERE ) for the VW90ES after a full calibration measured around 600 lumens in best mode and about 750 lumens in a less accurate Dynamic Mode after a quick calibration. Neither projector's claimed 1300 lumens output is meaningful since they can only come close to this level of light output in a mode that has very inaccurate colors.

 

[whitetrash66]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/20769993


My RS40 with about 50 hours on the lamp, after calibration and with fairly short throw measured about 800 ANSI lumens (the the average of 9 points). Of course the peak lumens (just the center screen measurement) was closer to 900 lumens. This was in high lamp mode and with the iris fully open. My results were very similar to what Ekki reported in the review of the X3 published on the cine4home web site.


The Projector Reviews tests ( HERE ) for the VW90ES after a full calibration measured around 600 lumens in best mode and about 750 lumens in a less accurate Dynamic Mode after a quick calibration. Neither projector's claimed 1300 lumens output is meaningful since they can only come close to this level of light output in a mode that has very inaccurate colors.

Ok, good to know about the lumens and true measurements.do you think that the 650-800 lumens that the sony and jvc have would be appropriate? I am still anxiously waiting f the new jvc and sony vw95 to be announced...I have read that the vw 95 may have memory zoom, which would be great for my situation.

 

[mjg100]

Ron, what size screen and gain is your screen?

 

[whitetrash66]

Any other thoughts on whether i should go 113" 16x9 or 129" 2.40?

 

[Ron Jones]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 /forum/post/20770939


Ron, what size screen and gain is your screen?

My screen is 120" (16 x 9) with a gain of 1.4. I find it adequate for 3D viewing and by that I mean similar to what I've seen in some of the better commercial threaters when viewing 3D movies. For 3D viewing high lamp mode is used and while substantially dimmer (including the light loss thru the 3D glasses) than for 2D, it is still adequate. In 2D calibrated mode, brightness from my screen runs about 26 ftL in high lamp mode with the iris fully open. Therefore, I can use normal lamp mode for routine 2D movie viewing in my fully light controlled home theater. As the lamp ages and dims, I'll switch to high lamp mode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitetrash66 /forum/post/20771448


Any other thoughts on whether i should go 113" 16x9 or 129" 2.40?

That's a call you will need to make. It really depends on how much you wll use the projector for viewing 'scope' movies. Unless you were to install a screen with a masking system you are going to be getting the very dark grey bars (and with the JVC projectors they are very dark) for viewing any video in the 'other' format. Either of these screen sizes will work OK for 2D with either the Sony or JVC projectors in terms of image brightness as long as you can control room lighting. Overall I probably watch at least twice as much 16 x 9 material as I do 'scope' movies in my home theater. Also in my case I was limited in how much width I had available to mount the screen and using a 'scope' screen whould have resulted in too small a 16 x 9 image for my tastes.


For those rooms with lighting and a projector/screen/viewer layout that can work with a retro-reflective screen (which requires the projector ideally be mounted within a foot or two of eye level, the Da-Lite High Power (gain 2.4) can be a good match to use with these 3D projectors. Lacking that option, screens that retain a lot of the polarization of the projected polarized light from the JVC projectors can give a real effective boost to the light level actually reaching the viewer's eyes as a result of less light being lost within the 3D glasses.

 

[mjg100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/20771876


My screen is 120" (16 x 9) with a gain of 1.4. I find it adequate for 3D viewing and by that I mean similar to what I've seen in some of the better commercial threaters when viewing 3D movies. For 3D viewing high lamp mode is used and while substantially dimmer (including the light loss thru the 3D glasses) than for 2D, it is still adequate. In 2D calibrated mode, brightness from my screen runs about 26 ftL in high lamp mode with the iris fully open. Therefore, I can use normal lamp mode for routine 2D movie viewing in my fully light controlled home theater. As the lamp ages and dims, I'll switch to high lamp mode.




That's a call you will need to make. It really depends on how much you wll use the projector for viewing 'scope' movies. Unless you were to install a screen with a masking system you are going to be getting the very dark grey bars (and with the JVC projectors they are very dark) for viewing any video in the 'other' format. Either of these screen sizes will work OK for 2D with either the Sony or JVC projectors in terms of image brightness as long as you can control room lighting. Overall I probably watch at least twice as much 16 x 9 material as I do 'scope' movies in my home theater. Also in my case I was limited in how much width I had available to mount the screen and using a 'scope' screen whould have resulted in too small a 16 x 9 image for my tastes.


For those rooms with lighting and a projector/screen/viewer layout that can work with a retro-reflective screen (which requires the projector ideally be mounted within a foot or two of eye level, the Da-Lite High Power (gain 2.4) can be a good match to use with these 3D projectors. Lacking that option, screens that retain a lot of the polarization of the projected polarized light from the JVC projectors can give a real effective boost to the light level actually reaching the viewer's eyes as a result of less light being lost within the 3D glasses.

I asked the question to help the OPer. I was pretty sure (like 99%) that you were not running a screen as large as the OPer is wanting. A 136" 16:9 screen (equal to zoomed 129" 2.40) is a lot larger than a 120".

 

[Ron Jones]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mjg100 /forum/post/20772134


I asked the question to help the OPer. I was pretty sure (like 99%) that you were not running a screen as large as the OPer is wanting. A 136" 16:9 screen (equal to zoomed 129" 2.40) is a lot larger than a 120".

I certainly agree that the 'scope' screen he is considering is substantially wider than my 120" 16 x 9. However, when he is displaying 16 x 9 video on that screen his image size will actually be smaller than my 120" diagonal. As pointed out earlier with 2D and zoomed for 'scope' mode he should still be able to get around 20 ftL from his screen which is certainly bright enough for most viewers. So the only real mode in question would be zoomed for 'scope' mode for 3D where the image will be dim, but probably still acceptable. He would also have the option of not zooming for 3D in order to maintain a brighter image. If the BDIII screen he is considering does in fact retain a high level of polarization (as the BDII does) this will increase the brightness for 3D viewing when using a JVC projector with the JVC 3D glasses.

 

[mjg100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Jones /forum/post/20774241


I certainly agree that the 'scope' screen he is considering is substantially wider than my 120" 16 x 9. However, when he is displaying 16 x 9 video on that screen his image size will actually be smaller than my 120" diagonal. As pointed out earlier with 2D and zoomed for 'scope' mode he should still be able to get around 20 ftL from his screen which is certainly bright enough for most viewers. So the only real mode in question would be zoomed for 'scope' mode for 3D where the image will be dim, but probably still acceptable. He would also have the option of not zooming for 3D in order to maintain a brighter image. If the BDIII screen he is considering does in fact retain a high level of polarization (as the BDII does) this will increase the brightness for 3D viewing when using a JVC projector with the JVC 3D glasses.

It is a larger screen than what I would want to use with that projector, but I am pretty conservative as far as screen size goes. I don't like a dim picture.