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Help with speakers

1262 Views 40 Replies 11 Participants Last post by gajCA, Aug 14, 2019

rio72

Discussion Starter · Aug 10, 2019

I have a dedicated home theatre room that is about 32' x 14' and I was hoping to get some ideas for speakers for a 7.1.4 system. My budget is about $4000 which does not include the 4 surround speakers which I will buy later. So I'm looking for 2 front speakers, amplifier, centre speaker, subwoofer, and 4 overhead atmos speakers. I have a benq 2050a projector with a 150 inch silverticket screen.

My AV guy has given me 2 options which I can list here: (canadian prices)

Option 1:
Amplifier: Onkyo TX-NR585 - $600
2 (Left + Right) Polk Audio S50 - 700
Center Channel: Polk Audio S35 - 400
Surround: Four 7" round in-ceiling Polk 70-RT - 1200
Sub-Woofers: 1 x Polk Audio HTS10 - 350
TOTAL: 3250

Option 2: ( a bit pricier)
Amplifier: Denon AVR3500h - $800
Front Speakers: 2x KEF Q550 Towers - 1100
Surround Speakers: KEF in-ceiling rectangular - 1380
Center Channel: KEF Q650 - 650
Sub-Woofers: KEF KUBE10 - 600
TOTAL: 4530

Do these packages look good? Or are there speakers out there that are better value compared to these? The one issue I do have is the space for the front speakers. I have about 8.25" between the screen and the side wall, so I know that rules out a bunch of speakers. Is this enough space for a good quality speaker or am I better off switching to an acoustic transparent screen?

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Zorba922

· #2 · Aug 10, 2019

rio72 said:
I have about 8.25" between the screen and the side wall, so I know that rules out a bunch of speakers. Is this enough space for a good quality speaker or am I better off switching to an acoustic transparent screen?

Definitely do the AT screen, that way you can put speakers that might not be very pretty but can play very loudly/clearly while not costing nearly as much. For example, 3 of these across your front would normally be ugly as sin but they'll blow your socks off compared to any of the stuff your installer's recommended:
https://www.amazon.ca/800-Watt-Spea...nger+speaker&qid=1565401644&s=gateway&sr=8-21

If that's too radical for you, look into the NHT speakers sold here at very good prices:
https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=nht&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Both of the packages your installer gave you are of very poor value.

General rule of thumb is, pay an installer to INSTALL ONLY. Any equipment you buy from an installer is bound to be hideously overpriced, i.e. giving him his cut.

And if you do free standing speakers behind an AT screen, zero need for an installer anyway. Try to use on-wall and wall mounted compact bookshelves for all surrounds and Atmos speakers too.

Lastly, avoid buying subs made by speakers-first companies...like the installer's recs, they are invariably overpriced and underperforming.

In Canada, this is your best bet for an HT sub:
https://www.electronicsforless.ca/svs-pb-1000-300-watt-dsp-controlled-10-ported-subwoofer-3884.html

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Reactions: 3

smcmillan2

· #3 · Aug 10, 2019

Zorba already pointed you to some good options. I will only say that for HT, you want the best center and subwoofer(s) you can afford (neither of the options you listed qualify there IMO).

Might consider DIY if you are so inclined.

Reactions: 1

MIX_MASTER_ICE

· #4 · Aug 10, 2019 (Edited)

In your situation I would be snatching up the Polk LSiM series speakers that are currently on sale. The LSiM 705 towers are $400/each after rebate, which I think may be the lowest ever. You'll be hard pressed to get more for less than these Polk tower, center and surround speakers.
https://slickdeals.net/f/13262356-p...89-m703-259-more-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

For a sub you have over 3500 ft^3 with 8' ceilings. I would look at the HSU VTF-15H mk2, which is on sale now for $1022/shipped.

http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

EDIT: Just caught that you look to be in Canada, so this may not apply.

Reactions: 2

RayGuy

· #5 · Aug 10, 2019 (Edited)

If you don't go with the acoustically transparent screen, a 150 inch screen will be too wide and won't provide sufficient space between the outside of the speaker and the wall (assumes the screen is on the 14' wall). If the screen is 2.40:1, it's even worse. How are you setting up the room? Multiple rows, risers? Be sure to leave enough room at the back so you are not right up against the back wall, which will eliminate the 7.x.x solution. Also, be sure that the seated ear in any row is not at 1/2 or 3/4 room length (after wall installation).

Is there anything more fun than a new HT? Well, maybe inaugurating it while watching Body Heat ....

Reactions: 3

Soulburner

· #6 · Aug 10, 2019 (Edited)

3x JBL 580 towers across the front behind the screen: $1050 https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+580BK-Z.html

In-Ceilings (Atmos): $500 https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

You say you will buy surrounds later.

The KEF system is good; it's just more expensive than the JBL and I doubt if it's better.

Don't get either of those subs. Look at getting 2 of these with your savings: $1700 http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

Edit on the subs: just noticed Canada. Get to a Paradigm dealer for a Defiance X15 subwoofer, or order a PSA V1510 or V1811 as they ship to Canada.

This will kill both option 1 and 2.

Under $4k.

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Reactions: 3

pase22

· #7 · Aug 10, 2019

rio72 said:
I have a dedicated home theatre room that is about 32' x 14' and I was hoping to get some ideas for speakers for a 7.1.4 system. My budget is about $4000 which does not include the 4 surround speakers which I will buy later. So I'm looking for 2 front speakers, amplifier, centre speaker, subwoofer, and 4 overhead atmos speakers. I have a benq 2050a projector with a 150 inch silverticket screen.

My AV guy has given me 2 options which I can list here: (canadian prices)

Option 1:
Amplifier: Onkyo TX-NR585 - $600
2 (Left + Right) Polk Audio S50 - 700
Center Channel: Polk Audio S35 - 400
Surround: Four 7" round in-ceiling Polk 70-RT - 1200
Sub-Woofers: 1 x Polk Audio HTS10 - 350
TOTAL: 3250

Option 2: ( a bit pricier)
Amplifier: Denon AVR3500h - $800
Front Speakers: 2x KEF Q550 Towers - 1100
Surround Speakers: KEF in-ceiling rectangular - 1380
Center Channel: KEF Q650 - 650
Sub-Woofers: KEF KUBE10 - 600
TOTAL: 4530

Do these packages look good? Or are there speakers out there that are better value compared to these? The one issue I do have is the space for the front speakers. I have about 8.25" between the screen and the side wall, so I know that rules out a bunch of speakers. Is this enough space for a good quality speaker or am I better off switching to an acoustic transparent screen?

Your base layer (5.1) is most critical since most of the sound will be coming from there. It is important to get the base layer right before expanding to atmos and whatnot. Your in ceiling channels should not be costing you $1200-1500, that's insane. The Kef package is a good option, but shop around for cheaper surrounds.

Reactions: 2

gajCA

· #8 · Aug 10, 2019

rio72 said:
I have a dedicated home theatre room that is about 32' x 14' and I was hoping to get some ideas for speakers for a 7.1.4 system.
Option 1:
Amplifier: Onkyo TX-NR585 - $600

Option 2: ( a bit pricier)
Amplifier: Denon AVR3500h - $800

You would need to get the Denon 4500 + stereo amp or the Denon 6500 to do 7.1.4.

Or the Onkyo TX-RZ3100.

All twice the price of those you listed.

bobknavs

· #9 · Aug 10, 2019

rio72 said:
I have a dedicated home theatre room that is about 32' x 14' and I was hoping to get some ideas for speakers for a 7.1.4 system.

(snip)

Option 1:
Amplifier: Onkyo TX-NR585 - $600
2 (Left + Right) Polk Audio S50 - 700
Center Channel: Polk Audio S35 - 400
Surround: Four 7" round in-ceiling Polk 70-RT - 1200
Sub-Woofers: 1 x Polk Audio HTS10 - 350
TOTAL: 3250

Option 2: ( a bit pricier)
Amplifier: Denon AVR3500h - $800
Front Speakers: 2x KEF Q550 Towers - 1100
Surround Speakers: KEF in-ceiling rectangular - 1380
Center Channel: KEF Q650 - 650
Sub-Woofers: KEF KUBE10 - 600
TOTAL: 4530

Do these packages look good? Or are there speakers out there that are better value compared to these? The one issue I do have is the space for the front speakers. I have about 8.25" between the screen and the side wall, so I know that rules out a bunch of speakers. Is this enough space for a good quality speaker or am I better off switching to an acoustic transparent screen?

Just to reiterate what GajCA posted, both of those receivers are 7 channel only. They cannot process signals for 5.1.4, much less 7.1.4.

The least expensive option would be a 9 channel AVR that processes 11 channels, like a Denon AVR-X3600H (2019 model), AVR-X4500H (2018 model, not to be replaced this year), Onkyo TX-RX830, and others. An external 2 channel amp would be required to run a 7.2.4 Atmos system. One-box 11 channel AVRs, like the Denon AVR-X6500H, are more expensive.

The AVRs are consistent with a 5.1 system, which is all that you list the speakers for. They could go to 5.2.2 Atmos or 7.2 (non-Atmos).

Reactions: 1

smithsabom

· #10 · Aug 11, 2019

being in canada, you might ant to check out axiom audio. you might do pretty well on b-stock or refurbs. Solid customer support.

rio72

Discussion Starter · #11 · Aug 11, 2019

Zorba922 said:
Definitely do the AT screen, that way you can put speakers that might not be very pretty but can play very loudly/clearly while not costing nearly as much. For example, 3 of these across your front would normally be ugly as sin but they'll blow your socks off compared to any of the stuff your installer's recommended:
https://www.amazon.ca/800-Watt-Spea...nger+speaker&qid=1565401644&s=gateway&sr=8-21

If that's too radical for you, look into the NHT speakers sold here at very good prices:
https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=nht&ref=nb_sb_noss_2

Both of the packages your installer gave you are of very poor value.

General rule of thumb is, pay an installer to INSTALL ONLY. Any equipment you buy from an installer is bound to be hideously overpriced, i.e. giving him his cut.

And if you do free standing speakers behind an AT screen, zero need for an installer anyway. Try to use on-wall and wall mounted compact bookshelves for all surrounds and Atmos speakers too.

Lastly, avoid buying subs made by speakers-first companies...like the installer's recs, they are invariably overpriced and underperforming.

In Canada, this is your best bet for an HT sub:
https://www.electronicsforless.ca/svs-pb-1000-300-watt-dsp-controlled-10-ported-subwoofer-3884.html

Hmm I've only been looking at towers but those Behringers look interesting. They are a good price, but am I sacrificing any sound quality? And I'm assuming that I wouldn't need a centre speaker if I went with 3 of them right?

rio72

Discussion Starter · #12 · Aug 11, 2019

MIX_MASTER_ICE said:
In your situation I would be snatching up the Polk LSiM series speakers that are currently on sale. The LSiM 705 towers are $400/each after rebate, which I think may be the lowest ever. You'll be hard pressed to get more for less than these Polk tower, center and surround speakers.
https://slickdeals.net/f/13262356-p...89-m703-259-more-free-shipping?src=SiteSearch

For a sub you have over 3500 ft^3 with 8' ceilings. I would look at the HSU VTF-15H mk2, which is on sale now for $1022/shipped.

http://hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

EDIT: Just caught that you look to be in Canada, so this may not apply.

Unfortunately shipping to Canada is $600, and I can't find a place to buy those in Canada

RayGuy said:
If you don't go with the acoustically transparent screen, a 150 inch screen will be too wide and won't provide sufficient space between the outside of the speaker and the wall (assumes the screen is on the 14' wall). If the screen is 2.40:1, it's even worse. How are you setting up the room? Multiple rows, risers? Be sure to leave enough room at the back so you are not right up against the back wall, which will eliminate the 7.x.x solution. Also, be sure that the seated ear in any row is not at 1/2 or 3/4 room length (after wall installation).

Is there anything more fun than a new HT? Well, maybe inaugurating it while watching Body Heat ....

Looks like AT screen is my best bet. There will only be one row. Probably just a basic sectional couch.

rio72

Discussion Starter · #13 · Aug 11, 2019

Soulburner said:
3x JBL 580 towers across the front behind the screen: $1050 https://www.jbl.com/loudspeakers/STUDIO+580BK-Z.html

In-Ceilings (Atmos): $500 https://rslspeakers.com/c34e-ceiling-speaker/

You say you will buy surrounds later.

The KEF system is good; it's just more expensive than the JBL and I doubt if it's better.

Don't get either of those subs. Look at getting 2 of these with your savings: $1700 http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-15hmk2.html

Edit on the subs: just noticed Canada. Get to a Paradigm dealer for a Defiance X15 subwoofer, or order a PSA V1510 or V1811 as they ship to Canada.

This will kill both option 1 and 2.

Under $4k.

I can't seem to find the JBLs in any canadian retailer. The atmos speakers look solid though and I will consider those, as well as the sub.

rio72

Discussion Starter · #14 · Aug 11, 2019

pase22 said:
Your base layer (5.1) is most critical since most of the sound will be coming from there. It is important to get the base layer right before expanding to atmos and whatnot. Your in ceiling channels should not be costing you $1200-1500, that's insane. The Kef package is a good option, but shop around for cheaper surrounds.

So would you say the kef towers are a decent option?

rio72

Discussion Starter · #15 · Aug 11, 2019

gajCA said:
You would need to get the Denon 4500 + stereo amp or the Denon 6500 to do 7.1.4.

Or the Onkyo TX-RZ3100.

All twice the price of those you listed.

I wonder why my installer recommended those receivers then. Especially since he told me I had a 7.1.4 set up

bobknavs said:
Just to reiterate what GajCA posted, both of those receivers are 7 channel only. They cannot process signals for 5.1.4, much less 7.1.4.

The least expensive option would be a 9 channel AVR that processes 11 channels, like a Denon AVR-X3600H (2019 model), AVR-X4500H (2018 model, not to be replaced this year), Onkyo TX-RX830, and others. An external 2 channel amp would be required to run a 7.2.4 Atmos system. One-box 11 channel AVRs, like the Denon AVR-X6500H, are more expensive.

The AVRs are consistent with a 5.1 system, which is all that you list the speakers for. They could go to 5.2.2 Atmos or 7.2 (non-Atmos).

The Denon x6500h is $3000 so I think a 9 channel AVR with an external 2 channel amp is probably better for me. Is there any downside to this though? Compared to getting an 11 channel AVR.

bobknavs

· #16 · Aug 11, 2019

rio72 said:
I wonder why my installer recommended those receivers then. Especially since he told me I had a 7.1.4 set up

The Denon x6500h is $3000 so I think a 9 channel AVR with an external 2 channel amp is probably better for me. Is there any downside to this though? Compared to getting an 11 channel AVR.

I hope that it was a communication problem.

What do you intend for the additional 2 base speakers, and the 4 Atmos speakers? They aren't in the quotes.

The main downside to using something like a Denon 4500 with an external stereo amp is, well, two boxes. If your external amp has a 12V trigger, its operation would be transparent (it would come on wit the AVR). Some amps also can power on in the presence of a signal, like most powered subs. That would be an acceptable alternative to the trigger.

pase22

· #17 · Aug 11, 2019

rio72 said:
I wonder why my installer recommended those receivers then. Especially since he told me I had a 7.1.4 set up

The Denon x6500h is $3000 so I think a 9 channel AVR with an external 2 channel amp is probably better for me. Is there any downside to this though? Compared to getting an 11 channel AVR.

Why so many channels? A nice 5.1.4 would sound just as good and would save you a lot of money that can be put towards a 2nd sub. You'll need dual subs in a room that size.

Reactions: 1

gajCA

· #18 · Aug 11, 2019

rio72 said:
I wonder why my installer recommended those receivers then. Especially since he told me I had a 7.1.4 set up

The Denon x6500h is $3000 so I think a 9 channel AVR with an external 2 channel amp is probably better for me. Is there any downside to this though? Compared to getting an 11 channel AVR.

I'd settle for 5.1.4 as you have only one main couch.

$1600 at Amazon Canada for a Denon 4400.

The Polks would work fine as would the Polk in ceilings; 4 for Atmos.

SVS for a sub.

Soulburner

· #19 · Aug 11, 2019

^ prefer HSU or Rythmik for their tighter, more articulate sound compared to SVS, though it looks like options are limited.

Also, really surprised to hear the JBLs are hard to find there. I think next option is to try to get those Polk 705s at the sale prices.

sigpig

· #20 · Aug 11, 2019

Soulburner said:
^ prefer HSU or Rythmik for their tighter, more articulate sound compared to SVS, though it looks like options are limited.

Also, really surprised to hear the JBLs are hard to find there. I think next option is to try to get those Polk 705s at the sale prices.

SVS can be bought and delivered in Canada. The import/customs/taxes/delivery fees/currency exchange will AT LEAST double the price of Rhythmic and HSU offerings.

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