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Help with Sub for Large Room, Poll and pics

3182 Views 21 Replies 14 Participants Last post by av-ra, Jul 30, 2009

Quorum

Discussion Starter · Jul 26, 2009

So I picked up a pair of Martin Logan Montage's a few weeks ago off of craigslist. I'm liking them but not loving them. I think I'm realizing I need some foundation for them in the form sub(s). (and a better amp but I'll save that for a different thread

I have been doing research on my own a here is what I came up with, and I would really appreciate everyones opinions and advice.

Bellow is a picture of my large room, it measures around 30' X 21' x 10' high.

My listening is ~80% music 15% Games and 5% Home Theater.

Requirements:

I like tight punchy bass not boomy bass even for my HT viewing/ listing.
I will sacrifice loud/ output for fast, tight, and accurate. I listen to a lot of Rock/ Alternative/ Bluegrass/ World Music and like to hear and feel the kick drum/ bass violin but don't care about shaking the house, I want the bass to be sharp and accurate/ articulate.
I have a budget of around $900.00 (after tax+ ship) for the sub(s) but may be able to add second for in a year or so if needed.
Sub Size/ Astetics is of no concern It can be a HUGE sub so long as it fills the room. the budget, and is tight.
I'm Comfortable with going to the used market to keep it in my budget

.

Based mainly on reading these forums over the last month or so, I'm Considering:

HSU Research: VTF-3 MK3
SVS: PBv12-NSD
Rhythmik Audio: F12
Epik: Vanquish Subwoofer (Side question: do you think a sealed sub really have more impact/ tighter than a good ported sub?)
Elemental Designs: A7S - 450
Velodyne: DLS-5000R
Jammo: SUB650 (cant seem to find much on this so any input would be apreciated)

Thoughts?

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2

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

brandonnash

· #2 · Jul 26, 2009

I say for your criteria the rythmik would be the best, but I would go with the 15" version rather than the 12". You will get more output from some of the others you have listed, but none have the sound quality the rythmik has.

Hksvr4

· #3 · Jul 26, 2009

I bias towards Epik because I own one. The vanquish might be a bit small for that room. If you can stretch another $100 you can get the Dragon. That's what I have and it sounds really nice. Tight, effortless and stops on a dime. I beat the piss out of my sub and it keeps coming back for more.

You can also add the Epik Sentinel. 12" ported. Many users are happy with it too. Also it's in your price range.

boarder1995

· #4 · Jul 26, 2009

That's a good size room. You'll need to get that laundry folded before unpacking any of these larger sub units you're considering.

Here's my take on the units selected:

HSU Research: VTF-3 MK3 --> Good controlled ported sub that'll be flixible with bottom end tuning versus high output. Also, it's well regarded and one I'd recommend.

SVS: PBv12-NSD --> Another well known and well supported unit by another reputable company that's been around for a LONG time, like Hsu. Perhaps a bit louder, but at the expense of boominess? I haven't heard this unit, but have an Ultra - LOVE IT - but it is a ported beast.

Rhythmik Audio: F12 --> likely the most controlled unit with its feedback servo mechanism, but the feedback signal takes a bit of power to "control" the driver, so a slight loss of output is expected, along with the fact it's sealed. It'll likely be the "tightest" unit of these, but also one of the lower volume ones.

Epik: Vanquish Subwoofer (Side question: do you think a sealed sub really have more impact/ tighter than a good ported sub?) -->Good size, sealed, and fairly loud. Like the Epik it'll be down on output with the sealed design, but also very well controlled and a gradual rolloff on the lower end. Because it's a larger driver it'll help with output.

Elemental Designs: A7S - 450 --> Once again a LARGE driver (one I considered) and it'll play deep and controlled. It is a big driver.

Velodyne: DLS-5000R --> good company and good subs, but more retail line, so a bit higher cost for what you get versus ID subs listed above.

Jammo: SUB650 (cant seem to find much on this so any input would be apreciated) --> I don't know anything about this unit - may be good, may just be average.

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Jay1

· #5 · Jul 26, 2009

For a mostly music preferance, a massive sealed sub like the A7S - 450 would be ideal.

DoubleATheater

· #6 · Jul 26, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hksvr4 /forum/post/16889439

I bias towards Epik because I own one. The vanquish might be a bit small for that room. If you can stretch another $100 you can get the Dragon. That's what I have and it sounds really nice. Tight, effortless and stops on a dime. I beat the piss out of my sub and it keeps coming back for more.

You can also add the Epik Sentinel. 12" ported. Many users are happy with it too. Also it's in your price range.

+1 on the Dragon if you can pull the cash. I have a ported Phoenix and it is absolutely awesome with both music and movies, musical and loud.

Nels07

· #7 · Jul 26, 2009

Talk to eD about their new sealed subs that they have

coming out, I can't remember the pricing but they are impressive

Quorum

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jul 27, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by boarder1995 /forum/post/16891274

That's a good size room. You'll need to get that laundry folded before unpacking any of these larger sub units you're considering.

HA!!! very funny, I showed it to the wife and she got a laugh too (she does the laundry and has a good sense of humor). I will make sure I take before and after picture once I get the sub(s) in, this time with the laundry folded.

Thanks again for the input, this is really helping me. I'm leaning more and more towards the HSU seems like the best price to performance and flexibility for me and at that price I should be able to add another in a year or so if I need to.

I just wish I could compare the HSU, Rythmik, ED to see if I could hear/ feel a difference between them one being ported the other being sealed with servo other without servo but with Massive 18" driver to see which one it tighter to my ear.

Anyone have suggestions for used market gear in the sub $900 range that might outshine the retail subs have listed? I'm willing to wait and keep an eye out. Brother-in-law suggested UintaTM but at 1500 on JB Audio it is out of my budget.

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Nels07

· #9 · Jul 27, 2009

eD's new sealed subs http://forum.edesignaudio.com/showth...ent-71538.html

shadyJ

· #10 · Jul 27, 2009

Whats nice about the VTF3 which maybe be good for your setup is that, with the side firing driver, you could put it next to your couch as a end table. The nicer finishes would let this subwoofer pass as a piece of furniture, and the near-field bass would let you 'feel' as well as hear the audio that much better. You could replace both your end tables with VTF3s and have everyone feel it in their chests every time a bomb goes off or gun is fired. That would be a massive system.

Quorum

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jul 27, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/16893232

Whats nice about the VTF3 which maybe be good for your setup is that, with the side firing driver, you could put it next to your couch as a end table.

I thought about that with any of these larger subs I'm considering. Given the size of the room I think Im going to have a hard time filling this room so I think going to have to utilize the near-field.

I don't have a problem running wires etc to make this happen but, I have 2 main concerns with it.

Thatlamps/ drinks, etc shake off of the sub
That the sub's overpower my fronts in a nearfield setup while listing to music which is the vast majority of my listening.

shadyJ

· #12 · Jul 27, 2009

I don't think you would have much of a problem with stuff shaking off on whatever sub you choose, because at that distance, the volume wouldn't have to be very high, and you wouldn't really be cranking it. You would also want to use a table cloth on the tops to prevent scratches to the finish, and I think that would also help against stuff moving from vibration.

As for overpowering the mains, I would guess that can be avoided if your subwoofer settings are dialed in right. Something that would affect that would be the cross-over. I'm thinking that the lower your cross-over, the less of a concern that would be.

Besides all that, you conserve floorspace since subwoofers can serve the functions of those end tables. More room and less clutter is always nice.

Quorum

Discussion Starter · #13 · Jul 30, 2009

Yeah I probably will not be playing the subs very loud given I will be focusing on music so using them as end tables should be fine. I think a SPL meter will be on my Christmas list this year.

I was a little surprised by the poll. I was figuring that the sealed offerings from Epik and Rythmik were going to get more votes.

HSU and ED seem to have quite a following on this board.

Man I wish I had a place I could listen to some of them first but I guess Im going to have to just take a chance.

shadyJ

· #14 · Jul 30, 2009

The differences between the Ed and HSU vs the rest is that they have more output. The SVS probably matches them though, but I think it is more thought of as a movie sub than music one. Personally, I think it would do fine with music, although it probably isn't as tight as the Rythmik. But given your room size, a sealed 12" like the Rythmik or Epik has a greater chance of getting lost with bass nulls. If it were a smaller room, I think the poll results would be different. I think they are all good subwoofers, except the jamo. I don't know anything about the jamo.

Art Sonneborn

· #15 · Jul 30, 2009

I'm wondering why Seaton's Submersive isn't in the poll ?

Art

Gelinas

· #16 · Jul 30, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn /forum/post/16912563

I'm wondering why Seaton's Submersive isn't in the poll ?

Art

My guess would be budget.

All of the subs in the poll are under a grand.

Some of them cost almost 1/3 of a submersive.

Quorum

Discussion Starter · #17 · Jul 30, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelinas /forum/post/16912937

My guess would be budget.

All of the subs in the poll are under a grand.

Some of them cost almost 1/3 of a submersive.

Correct, Budget is 900 bucks or a divorce. . .

I would'nt mind going to the used market but kinda hard to find some of these boutique subs used. I'm getting the feeling people buy them and keep them.

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Quorum

Discussion Starter · #18 · Jul 30, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by shadyJ /forum/post/16912314

But given your room size, a sealed 12" like the Rythmik or Epik has a greater chance of getting lost with bass nulls. If it were a smaller room, I think the poll results would be different .

Yeah that is why I stated that I might be able to double down in a year. I want the fastest, tightest, low end I can get even if I have to deal with low output and bass nulls.

I put the sealed in the mix because I figured I could get a sealed sub for tighter music bass (if that is indeed true seems there is an argument about that), set it up it for MY listing position and then get another in a year or so to fill it out (or move my listing room the basement which is a much more controlled area if I cant convince the wife of a 2nd sub).

But that being said I bet I will be happy with the ported ones listed here given all my reading and everyones feedback.

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Jakeman02

· #19 · Jul 30, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quorum /forum/post/16911967

I was a little surprised by the poll. I was figuring that the sealed offerings from Epik and Rythmik were going to get more votes.

HSU and ED seem to have quite a following on this board.

I think it has more to do with the size room room your dealing with rather than a brand following on this board.

That's a huge area to fill and without going multiples a small sealed design is likely to fall short in comparison to the larger ported versions which offer higher output for the $$ spent.

As far as ported vs sealed for music I've recently from a 12" sealed Rythmik to the Sentinel and don't feel I've lost anything in that regard. My room is much smaller than yours and it definitely fills the space better down to it's tuning point.

If you can't go with one of the larger sealed designs due to your budget like the A7S-450 or the Dragon I'd recommend sticking with a larger ported such as the VTF3 which is an excellent sub across the board and will be much more capable that large of an area.

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mrcoop

· #20 · Jul 30, 2009

I would suggest hsu 3.3. But if you want something tight, sealed would be the way to go but I think you would have to go with a seaton to fill the room.

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