AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
580 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey Guys -


I just got my new Dali Ikon 6 speakers (2 of them), the rest of the set is coming, once I fork up the rest of the cash...


First off, I want to say I am so sorry if this is the wrong topic thread, however, I did not know where else to ask this question since there is no "exact" label that I could find...


Question: What sort of speaker cables should I use to connect these? And Is it worth to Bi-wire these? And will it count if I go all out and get top of the line speaker cables, such as the Nirvana audio S-X ltds speaker cables http://www.nirvanaaudio.com/products.html ...



Or if there would be no difference with these nirvana speaker cables (if I bi wired speakers, im going bankrupt
), whats the difference with copper speaker calbes and silver speaker cables? I want to listen to music and movies...I listen to rock, pop, grunge, all kinds of music, but I dont like the bass and midrange taking over the singers voice which is why I love the dali ikon (I heard silver cables help "define" the treble, not sure though), .. (ps. im not an "expert audiofile" and I might of describged this wrong)

thanks guys
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,419 Posts
Most folks on this site don't subscribe to mind set of cables improving there over all sound, so I would suggest hearing for yourself, and seeing if do hear a difference.. Trust you ears, and don't let anyone tell you what it is that you hear...




Good luck



Djoel
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
8,710 Posts
12 AWG multi-stranded. BiWire ... a waste. BiAmp, Ok.

Difference between copper and silver .... cost and dealer profit.

Bass and mid-range taking over is either poor room acoustics, bad placement, poor calibration or rotten speaker design.


You been drinking that blue smoke Koolaid again?

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,623 Posts
Electrical dept at HD or Lowe's. 14-12 awg SJO bulk spooled power cable or just buy an extension cord and cut the plugs off. Also the 12 awg outdoor cable for malibu lights is quite popular.


There is no measurable, hearable difference except you when saying "OUCH!" while looking at an empty wallet from getting suckered into buying pretty speaker cables.


The color of conductors means zilch. All the hype you read/hear is just that. sales hype.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstosity12 /forum/post/17046416


thanks guys


I guess Ill have to get new speaker cables, since I only have 16 gauge mosnter CL speaker wires right now...


this forum rules

16 gauge may be fine, depending on the speaker impedance and the distance. See this article.

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


While I would never recommend buying from the lying dirtbags at Monster Cable, since you already own them, there's no reason to replace them if they're adequate to the task.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
I can never figure out how so many people in here have such a hatred for good quality cabling and wire. To say that lamp cord sounds the same as a well crafted speaker cable is Total Crap. There is a point of diminishing returns, but to say that cabling makes no difference is silly.

So, go out and listen to some different cables and see for yourself. If you don't hear a difference, good for you. You just saved some money, but very inexperienced ears can hear a difference. Everytime I make a change in my system, I hear a difference. Not because a sales man told me so, but because I liked what I heard. Why do we spend money on better speakers?????? Because it makes a difference. Why do we spend more money on electronics????? Because it makes a difference.

Now go have fun listening to good music on your new speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,212 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydah /forum/post/17063675


I can never figure out how so many people in here have such a hatred for good quality cabling and wire. To say that lamp cord sounds the same as a well crafted speaker cable is Total Crap. There is a point of diminishing returns, but to say that cabling makes no difference is silly.

So, go out and listen to some different cables and see for yourself. If you don't hear a difference, good for you. You just saved some money, but very inexperienced ears can hear a difference. Everytime I make a change in my system, I hear a difference. Not because a sales man told me so, but because I liked what I heard. Why do we spend money on better speakers?????? Because it makes a difference. Why do we spend more money on electronics????? Because it makes a difference.

Now go have fun listening to good music on your new speakers.

Please do two things:

1.) Learn some basic physics.

2.) Learn some basic psychology


#1 will help you understand why a "well crafted" speaker cable will sound the same as lamp cord, and if a change is detectable it is a degradation.

#2 will help you realize how vulnerable we are to biases like expectation bias and how this is interwoven into psychoacoustics. What we hear is really an illusion, an amalgamation of retrieved signals from our ear and, mostly, our minds interpretation and processing of such signals. Thus our minds can have a true "audible" effect on what we hear, even if nothing physically has changed. The Mcgurk Effect is one of the better examples of this that works on most people.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,649 Posts
I have to make a correction to my previous post...


Some of the esoteric speaker cable is indeed well crafted, it just isn't well engineered from a practical point. It is certainly possible to do things to speaker cable that will yield a different resistance, inductance, or capacitance than zip cord. The effects of these changes can even be measured. The problem is that the net effects of these changes in these "well crafted" cables are almost always so small as to be inaudible. When they are audible, you could achieve the same effect with the treble control on your amp. And some of the changes are actually detrimental if what you are looking for is flatter frequency response.


Some highly touted technologies such as silver wire, monocrystaline copper, oxygen free copper, etc. are just BS...


FWIW speaker distortion, non-linear frequency response of speakers, and room effects, swamp any effects of any reasonable speaker cable. Why not put your money and time where it will be most useful.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,420 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by monstosity12 /forum/post/17046416


thanks guys


I guess Ill have to get new speaker cables, since I only have 16 gauge mosnter CL speaker wires right now...

There's one of the things that could be pretty upsetting. You probably paid far more for the 16 gauge Monster cable than you'll pay for commodity 12 gauge.


Depending on length and your speakers, they'll either sound the same, or the 12 gauge will make a minor improvement in accuracy.


12 gauge is overkill in most home applications, but its cheap insurance against having to think! ;-)


BTW subwoofers and room acoustics are sure-fire ways to obtain better sound, a far more productive route than minor stuff like the difference between 12 and 16 gauge wire.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,863 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydah /forum/post/17063675


I can never figure out how so many people in here have such a hatred for good quality cabling and wire. To say that lamp cord sounds the same as a well crafted speaker cable is Total Crap. There is a point of diminishing returns, but to say that cabling makes no difference is silly.

So, go out and listen to some different cables and see for yourself. If you don't hear a difference, good for you. You just saved some money, but very inexperienced ears can hear a difference. Everytime I make a change in my system, I hear a difference. Not because a sales man told me so, but because I liked what I heard. Why do we spend money on better speakers?????? Because it makes a difference. Why do we spend more money on electronics????? Because it makes a difference.

Now go have fun listening to good music on your new speakers.

I don't think anyone has a hatred for good quality cabling and wire. Many, though, know what consitutes "good quality" and understand that it needn't be expensive, and it can even be zip cord.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,420 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydah /forum/post/17063675


I can never figure out how so many people in here have such a hatred for good quality cabling and wire.

Its not neecessary hatred. I probably love a nice peice of OFHC, sliver-plated, finely stranded, teflon-insulated, neatly bundled and terminated piece of cable as much as anybody. And I've probably used a lot more of it in my life than most.

Quote:
To say that lamp cord sounds the same as a well crafted speaker cable is Total Crap.

Depends on what you call "sounds". If you are involving your opinions of its appearance and pedigre in the process of hearing, than no, they don't "sound" the same. If you are talking about sound waves impinging on your eardrum and being perceived in your brain, then there's plenty of evidence that they can indeed sound the same.

Quote:
There is a point of diminishing returns, but to say that cabling makes no difference is silly.

To say that it always makes a difference to people who aren't mentally-diminished is equally silly.


Quote:
So, go out and listen to some different cables and see for yourself.

Been there, done that, perhaps since before you were in square, disposable pants. ;-)

Quote:
If you don't hear a difference, good for you.

You seem to be spitting that out. Do I detect a note of sarcasm?

Quote:
You just saved some money, but very inexperienced ears can hear a difference.

So you're saying that everybody who disagrees with you lacks experience?


That's *big* of you! ;-)


Quote:
Everytime I make a change in my system, I hear a difference.

I think you underestimate what makes a difference. What you're saying is like saying: "Everytime I bake a cake it tastes different." That can mean a lot of things.



Quote:
Not because a sales man told me so, but because I liked what I heard.

Oh, so you're saying that if you don't hear the prerequisite difference, then you don't like what you heard?


BTW, that's an interesting world you live in, where all changes are improvements. ;-)

Quote:
Why do we spend money on better speakers?????? Because it makes a difference.

Now you're mixing apples and oranges. Its far more likely that speakers will sound different than cables will sound different. Do you know the difference in these differences?

Quote:
Why do we spend more money on electronics????? Because it makes a difference.

So, nobody ever makes any mistakes when they buy electronics?


That's a wonderful, but totally unreaslistic world that you're talking about there.


Quote:
Now go have fun listening to good music on your new speakers.

Why do I sense a downward tilt in your nose?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,189 Posts
I'd like to point out that when we say that speaker cables all sound the same, we are writing about:

Reasonable cables of reasonable lengths feeding reasonable loudspeakers!


For instance, we don't mean that 500 foot, 10 gauge and 24 gauge cables will sound the same when feeding low impedance ribbon speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk /forum/post/17067157


Been there, done that, perhaps since before you were in square, disposable pants. ;-)

Yeah, I think it was 1978 or 79 when I first heard the shamans chanting about magical cables. After maybe an hour or so spent switching a line level connector attached to the tape monitor on my amp, I was greatly relieved to discover I didn't need to spend money on fancy wiring.


I remember thinking, "That was a silly way to spend an hour!"
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
14,420 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter White /forum/post/17067862



Yeah, I think it was 1978 or 79 when I first heard the shamans chanting about magical cables.

Sounds about the right time.


Two other things happened about then:


The Absolute Sound \\and Peter Moncrieff really started shoveling the compost...


We invented ABX and cable hysteria was used to explain why ABX couldn't work - all those cables and relay contacts were wrong! wrong! wrogn. ;-)


Quote:
After maybe an hour or so spent switching a line level connector attached to the tape monitor on my amp, I was greatly relieved to discover I didn't need to spend money on fancy wiring.


I remember thinking, "That was a silly way to spend an hour!"

Probably not to my credit but: I've spent a *lot* more time than that testing fancy cables than that, DBTs, measurements, the whole enchelada.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,256 Posts
I'm from the "just use zip cord"if you don't happen to have any RG-8 cable camp. Spend your money on room treatments.

Yes, when younger I fell for the hype. Monster, Kimber, AQ. Did some research ( AES papers for a start). Did some measurements. ( phase, distortion, Z) 12 ga zip ( outdoor light wire) from HD. RG-8 measures more balanced, but I can't hear the difference in 10 foot cables.


Some cables DID sound different. Salesmen pointed out they must be better. Well, actually they were causing distortions. Different is not always better. But knowing what measures best, you still need to be happy. Your ears.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
328 Posts
On the perhaps faulty assumptions that you weren't just trolling and are still here:

Quote:
The wheels on the bus go 'round and 'round... all day long.

+1
Quote:
FWIW speaker distortion, non-linear frequency response of speakers, and room effects, swamp any effects of any reasonable speaker cable. Why not put your money and time where it will be most useful.

+1 on 'room effects', and that applies to speakers and electronics too, not just cables
Quote:
... I would suggest hearing for yourself, and seeing if do hear a difference.. Trust you ears, and don't let anyone tell you what it is that you hear...

+100
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Top