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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have aspired to in the long run have a really high end 2 channel amplifier or amplifiers, and after going from receiever to receiver with pre amp to 5 channel amp, and then pre amp to amp, and then better 3 channel for front and lessor on back from preamp, and then trying more then 12 brands in home getting as far as I can with a 3 channel HT amp playing music in the current Krell KAV 3250 3x 250. I tried 12 types and this one by far was the best overall amp. It has the crispest top and smoothest mids but where other brands beat the prior 250 in the mid and top, no non mono or very high end stereo could touch it on low end extension or accuracy. Krell claims this one is just as good at low end, but I have heard mono blocks with lessor low end then the Krell 250a and a/3, but it seems that the one thing that no HT amp even at 6500 for 3 channels can do is deliver the upper extension this one does with the bass control and extension of the prior one, and Krell knows it and just fibs about it. After hearing many mono's and stereo one's with lessor, I thought Krell may have replaced that because some of their higher end owners may not have liked that it had the bass that other then that one piece no such amp has ever had in that level or anything close.


My questions are

1) I see mono's and the same brand with a stereo version and wanted you guys that have done these take on if a really good 2 channel is out there, is the mono just that much better?

2) I see that many brands have class A bias to 20 to 40 watts then AB like I have now, and i wondered does that limited class A cover you most of the time where you yield benefit even though you can't jack it up?

3) What I am thinking is getting the 2 channel Krell and using it for front and my 3 channel for the center and surround, what do you think of that?



I would love guys takes that have dealt with this issue and resolved it or even failed trying some things
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
However my question doesn't rely on that, because at the point I do this, I may also switch.


I am using Infinity Kappa 600's on the front. They sound wonderful, but at the point I get to that level I don't know what I will get. Infinity and me go way back and when I finally ran out of downsizing from the 9.1's to the 7.1 to the 5.1's they finally came out with these, and I have been very pleased with them so far.


I really like B&W 802's though, and when I do this, if I ever moved that would be to what.
 

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Well B&W apparently owns Classe and uses Classe for their high end speakers at shows.


Now I don't know that much on Classe myself since it is very much out of my price range, but maybe someone else can give you an idea.


Thanks,

Maziar
 

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I use Bryston 7B-STs with my N802's and they can make use of all the power (500-600 Watts each) that these amps put out. I haven't had the chance to listen to the 7B-SST's but, it's said that they are smoother on the top end than the previous models.


I did have the chance to listen to a Krell 250a, I don't remember the exact model, amp and thought that the bass was not as tight as the Bryston's however, the rest of the music sounded very nice. So, if you want to stick with Krell, I think that you would be OK if you moved up the line for your fronts.


That said, you may just want to wait and see how the N802's sound with your current amp since it will drive the speakers. That will give you the best gauge of the synergy between the Krell sound and the B&W sound. I'd be willing to bet that you would like it. Be aware that the B&Ws are revealing and you may end up changing some of your front end components as well.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I can't imagine a 802 is going to make a theta casablanca 3 sound bad, and I can't imagine that a good transport will be the problem, so what do you mean by that?


My problem is that my infinity 600's just bunny stomp the 804 B&W's and were 900 cheaper, so you have to go up quite a bit to get to that next level, but eventually I feel like I have to make one more leap, just for the musical integrity. I have heard the 802's on my current amp and it sounded very nice, and that was with the Krell HT 7.1, and my Theta is a better musical pre amp then that is, so I would think it would sound good also. I have always loved the tweeters and mids on the Infinitys' and I love the same thing on the 802's at the next price point. I shoud probably also give the MTS by Infinity at 9500 a pair a listen when they come out with their new ones because I have used the line for over 20 years. As much as I love the tweeter and mid on the 802's I don't like the one's on the 803, 4 or 5's as much as my current ones, and I was surprised that was the case, but I went in thinking becuase of cost the B&W would surely sound better, but to my pocket books delight they did not. Good but not bettter. I also didn't think the lower bass even starts to really appear till you get to the 803 series. Have you listened to the 805 signature's? They do have a really good all around performance for a small speaker, but at $3500 for a pair for bookshelves they should.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by mazuly
Well B&W apparently owns Classe and uses Classe for their high end speakers at shows.


Now I don't know that much on Classe myself since it is very much out of my price range, but maybe someone else can give you an idea.


Thanks,

Maziar
I have never really cared for Classe when I have heard them. I have heard mono's and multi channel and the multi sounded really, really edgy, and I don't know how their level gets to 140 DB when they are so grainy, but I think it is one of those specs by choosing to test in order to get a predetermined result, and their mono's are not even close to a Krell or Levinson, or a Pass. I am very surprised B&W owns them though, because more B&W are sold bey krell dealers then any other way, and many dealers learn they are a big match, and do so intentionally because of that. I may just stick with infinity, or go to their highend, but I have always liked that speaker, and I have heard it with my current amp and they sounded really good, just a little lacking on the lowest of bass, which a Krell stereo or mono would surely solve, but I am not sure on cost for benefit and that is my question or concern.
 

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If you like the Infinity speakers like the old kappas, you should look into getting a used pair of IRS Betas. Make sure you have some beef for the bottoms, though. I have not heard a krell on my speakers, but they did sound very nice driven by a Classe when I picked them up from the previous owner.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Addicted Help!!
I have never really cared for Classe when I have heard them. I have heard mono's and multi channel and the multi sounded really, really edgy, and I don't know how their level gets to 140 DB when they are so grainy, but I think it is one of those specs by choosing to test in order to get a predetermined result, and their mono's are not even close to a Krell or Levinson, or a Pass. I am very surprised B&W owns them though, because more B&W are sold bey krell dealers then any other way, and many dealers learn they are a big match, and do so intentionally because of that. I may just stick with infinity, or go to their highend, but I have always liked that speaker, and I have heard it with my current amp and they sounded really good, just a little lacking on the lowest of bass, which a Krell stereo or mono would surely solve, but I am not sure on cost for benefit and that is my question or concern.
There is a misconception about B&W owning Classe. B&W has taken over distributorship and marketing of Classe and has made a financial investment in them but they do not own them. Classe is coming out with a new line of products that look out of this world... only time will tell as far as how they sound.


In so far as Krell and B&W, I would like to know where you got your facts from? While mine is only speculative, of the dozen or so B&W dealers I have ever been to, only 1 has carried Krell... most have been Levinson dealers (and I am sure that has changed with their recent issues) but again that is only speculative.
 

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N802 can dip down to 3 ohm so not that many power amps qualify


have listened to halcro dm58 partnered with the N802 and the rhythm, clarity and musicality are unreal, it gets to a stage that the more you listen the more you want to listen


comparatively krell amps can give you extreme highs and lows which appeal to listening for short time but get stress out if listen to longer period
 

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Quote:
I can't imagine a 802 is going to make a theta casablanca 3 sound bad, and I can't imagine that a good transport will be the problem, so what do you mean by that?


My problem is that my infinity 600's just bunny stomp the 804 B&W's and were 900 cheaper...
My comment about N802s revealing limitations in a front end were based on experience, general wisdom and not specific to your system since, you did not mention what other components you were using.


As for the Infinity 600's bunny stomping the 804s, it may be that you prefer the voicing of Infinity over B&W. That's not a bad thing and I appreciate it since I myself used, and continue in my bedroom system to use, Infinity. Have you considered other brands that may be voiced closer to the Infinity sound? By all means listen to the new MTS when available. Get the speakers that sound the way you want them to sound. 802's aren't the end all in speakers but they are very good. Also, I reiterrate what I said about the 250a Krell I heard sounding very nice but lacking in bass control on the N802s so, you MAY want to investigate a larger Krell if you go with this speaker.
 

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The closest I have heard to the older Infinity lines are the VMPS. They have very similar drivers.
 

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FWIW I use a Theta Dreadnaught to drive my 802Ns and the 200W channels make the 802N's really sing..


TM
 

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Check out www.llanodesign.com , great amps that outperformed everything I put in place of them for the $$, including Krell and Classe. I use the dual mono Trinity for the fronts and the 3 channel Trinity (has a common transformer for all three channels) for center and surrounds. All are 200wpc.


And this being the nature of the beast, I've always found Classe amps to be too smooth and rolled off in the highs; maybe that's just the system they were in.
 

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I highly recommend the Innersound ESL amp - it will drive anything and is stable to below 1 ohm. If 300W/600W @ 8/4 ohms is not enough their monoblocks are available at up to 1,000W/2000W @ 8/4 ohms. For all practical purposes these amps will never go into clipping. But apart from the specs this is the most musical, transparent and non-fatiguing amp I have ever heard.


Dsmith
 

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There was someone wanting to know what brand amp B&W used at their factory to test their speaker systems. It was either Krell or Mark Lev's last I knew. Classe is a new one on me.


When the question was originally asked someone stated that it would need to be a Brit amp used,but I do believe it was Mark Levs they used up till recently.


Good luck and there are plenty of amps that can drive B&W's including Rotels which I recently heard used with B&W's.


I would like to try a Plinius amp next for my reference setup which might work well with B&W's also. I own Modified NEAR M50III's speakers which are not manufactured any longer,but I know the president of the Co. well.Lucky me!
 
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