AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 20 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi!


I'm fairly new to this forum, as HDTV has not yet come to Europe. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/frown.gif


The HDTV RPTVs on the US market are a far cry superior to any RPTV available in Europe!

Despite the absence of HDTV broadcasts, they are coveted for their DVD, LD or scaled broadcast TV potential.


Importing such a unit implies additional costs, the least of which are not customs duties and the dreaded voiding of warrantees. No money back facilities or instant replacement if something goes amiss. Also, one can plan from the onset upon opening it up once it arrives and retightening all its components and fully converging it before it becomes useable.


So this means somewhat different criteria than if you are shopping for an HDTV from your local retailer in a shopping mall:


1. It must allow line doubler bypass, have the anamorphic squeeze feature and a superb high resolution image to justify all the costs and hassles.


2. It must have a good price/performance ratio as its price is used as a basis in calculating import duties.


3. It has to be among the more reliable brands/models to reduce the risk of being stranded without parts and service.


4. It has to be purchased from a reliable retailer who first tests it out fully and then packs it superbly.

(possibly supplying a copy of the factory service manual)


5. It must ship out with a reputable outfit, not like my FPTV damaged in shipping by Roadway Express.



In 3 RPTV categories based on CRT size, which would be:


- Best Bang for the buck 7" RPTV:

* candidate 1: Mitsubishi WS-55907

* candidate 2: Toshiba xxx

* candidate 3: Panasonic xxx

* candidate 4: Hitachi xxx

* candidate 5: Pioneer Elite xxx


- Best Bang for the buck 8" RPTV:

* candidate 1: ? xxx

* candidate 2: ? xxx


- Best Bang for the buck 9" RPTV: http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif

* candidate 1: Zenith IQB64W10W

* candidate 2: Mitsubishi WS-73907

* candidate 3: Philips 64PH9905

* candidate 4: Samsung xxx

* candidate 5: Runco xxx


Maybe it is easier to just hop a plane to the US and spend weeks scouting for demos and questioning glib salesmen, but you know that this is a laborious task which takes "being there" and little by little getting to know what is out there and where the real deals lie.


So thanks in advance for casting your votes. Without your help, anyone living outside the golden perimeter of US borders will be reduced to either strictly Low Definition Home Theater viewing, or giving up altogether on RPTVs. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif


------------------


Brett


[This message has been edited by Brett (edited 01-10-2001).]
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
536 Posts
Brett- I don't really understand your post. You have a front projector. Why do you want to buy a RPTV? Just because it has a HDTV decoder built in? In fact very few RPTVs have a HDTV decoder built in (but it's coming). The best standalone decoder units are the DTC-100 by RCA and the Dish 6000. Both decoders capture off-the-air HDTV broadcast which you can get without paying a dime with just a small interior or exterior cheap antenna. I use one of those with my front projector (they have RGB output). The best RPTVs on sale here are the new Philips. Now like all units sold in the US (unlike FPTVs) their power supply is always 110-60 Hz, only. You would have a problem with 60 Hz, I believe.


[This message has been edited by Grosse Fatigue (edited 01-08-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·


Hi Grosse Fatigue,


Thanks for your helpful post.


I do have a Front Projector, which gives such a nice picture that I am no longer thinking of someday even in the distant future upgrading it to a Sony G90. Instead, I want to prolong its useful life (read overpriced 9" tube life) by spreading my viewing between it and a bedroom RPTV.


Although I have become accustomed to what is possible a significantly better image than that produced by the best RPTVs on the market, that doesn't make the better ones unwatchable by a longshot. Also, this would allow me to pipe in digital satellite transmissions (low definition for now) without being terrified of logo burn-in on my main projector. I could also use it for the occasional bout of gaming, even if I haven't had the leasure to try my hand at it in quite some time.


I realize that even the top of the line RPTVs are limited in their electronics when compared to the better FPTVs, and that I won't find any that come close to the 150Hz/135KHz specs of my unit. However, they project onto a screen of about 1/4 the size, so it is another set of requirements.


Actually, I would prefer an RPTV which is only HD ready, and doesn't have a built in decoder since even if HDTV comes to Europe it would never be with identical specs to those for the US market. Also it is important that one be able to enter RGB input directly without being stuck with a built-in low to average quality line doubler. The ability to do the anamorphic squeeze would also give the signal more bandwidth when displaying 2.35:1 movies and produce a better picture, so that feature is a must.


Thanks for your recommendation of the Philips RPTV. I assume it is the model with 9" CRTs? Once I find its exact reference, I will post it to my list of candidates at the top of the thread for others to consult. At issue might be its reliability, it is a recent unit and the low-end Philips RPTVs available in Europe have a poor record regarding service calls. But then again, this one is an entirely different animal and is probably neither designed by the same team or produced in the same plant.


The power supply issue is a point well taken as these can consume alot of current and would need a very heavy duty semi-industrial power converter. Going from 220 to 110 is a no brainer, but to my knowledge it is next to impossible to turn 50Hz into 60Hz. However it has always been my understanding that most components used in modern electronics are designed in compatibility with both of these cycles and it should not keep it from running or cause other problems. But I will definitely have to contact the engineering teams of the manufacturer (as I did for my Sony FPTV) to ascertain its cycle compatibility.


Thanks alot for the input and enjoy those free HDTV broadcast... you lucky jfkjf! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif





------------------


Brett
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,891 Posts
Just a correction...the Pioneer Elites have 7" not 9" CRT's but a lot of people still think the Elites have a better picture!


If you are not going to have the ability to get service very easily for whatever HDTV I would think twice about the Philips only because there have been a lot of issues that have occured with the Philips.


Make sure you do extensive research beforehand on the HDTV you buy or you will have one very expensive paper weight!


------------------

------------------
My DVD/LD List My Equipment List
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·


Frank,


Thanks for the correction! I've edited my first post to reflect this - I had confused it with the Runco unit which is indeed a 9" model.


Anyways, you'll notice that those candidates so far are just stand-ins, waiting to have real models and their references.


Thanks for dropping a line if you have an RPTV you like, or wish you did! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


Cheers,


------------------


Brett
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,075 Posts
Hi Brett...I think there are more FPTV people here so as a RPTV owner I thought I'd help out. I just researched for about 2 months & finally purchased a Mitsubishi 55807. For the money, you just can't beat Mits. I would never compare RPTV to anything other than other RPTV's though (ie you can't compare to Front PTV). If you want to spend under $3000, it's great. If you wanted the best for the money, I'd say Mitsubishi was the way to go. If you needed smaller, they have a nice 46". For considerably more money, the Pioneer Elites are probably better. Maybe not such a bargain for the money. The regular Pioneers are not as good as the Mitsubishi IMO, just the Elite's are.


Contrary to what some people say (because they are comparing Apples to Oranges as far as Direct view's & Fronts compared to Rear Projections), my picture is very good with my digital cable. Almost DVD quality but not quite (and not formatted 16:9 either) as good. It depends how good your digital cable is though as some pictures are quite horrible from other cable vendors. For basic cable, it's a mixed thing for me. Some channels are horrible & some are accpetable, but not great.


For tons of info on RPTV's go to ***************.com .


Hope that helps,


Todd
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
536 Posts
Brett- Check the new Sampo SME-34WHDS direct view TV set. www.sampoamericas.com/ It sells for $2,700! It has everything! I may buy one for myself. When I looked at RPTVs I thought how do you service, retube, ship those 400 lbs mammoths, besides the power supply problem and the price for new units? Well, you don't! You get stuck with them. You can't upgrade. You can't resell them because they become obsolete very quickly. There is no second hand market to speak of for them. And the picture is no comparison with a FPTV. To me it's a no brainer: I'd buy either a new direct view Sampo TV set and/or a second front projector like a G70.


[This message has been edited by Grosse Fatigue (edited 01-10-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Grosse Fatigue (edited 01-10-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Grosse Fatigue (edited 01-10-2001).]
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
536 Posts
Follow up- The only kind of RPTVs I would eventually buy are used professional models -which unfortunately come only with a standard screen - because it's a snap to remove the projector from the case to ship it for retubing or service and because you can actually pick the projector you want to install in it -7 incher, 8 incher or 9. Hi-Rez used to have used Electrohomes RPTVs fitted with ECP-4500s, converged and all. Think about it! I was very tempted. And still is.


[This message has been edited by Grosse Fatigue (edited 01-10-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·


Grosse Fatigue,


Thanks for going to the trouble of informing my purchase decision. Never having seen a High Definition RPTV, I cannot dispute your statement that they are far from being in the league of well set up FPTVs. However, due to their relatively modest screen size they can be used in slightly worse ambient light conditions. A bedroom RPTV would prevent me from sleeping under a 200lb mammouth bolted above my bed... (can't resolve myself to get a tiny digital FPTV).


The big one's from Hi-Rez sure sound nice, although I'd possible prefer to use a Dwin 700 inside as my Sony 1292 has sensitized me to noise issues. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/eek.gif


Where would you go about finding a used Professional RPTV? It sounds like more trouble yet than setting up and calbrating an FPTV. One attraction for me of RPTVs was the no-brainer setup aside from tinkering with the service menu on the remote. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/cool.gif


So although their picture may not be up to par with respect to FPTVs, is is assuredly better than that of the RPTVs sold here in Europe. And a bleeding edge HD RPTV imported here from the States will be light years ahead of its day and although losing part of its resale value it would still remain attractive to many potential buyers of used HT equipment.


By spreading my viewing to an RPTV I would be doubling the useful life (in terms of years) of my front projector, therefore saving money by spending money. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


Let me know which HDTV rear projection sets you have had a chance to see, and in what context. By all accounts, those shown in stores have cruddy low definition feeds and are ludicrously converged. I once read a thread by a Samsung 9" RPTV owner who said you felt as though you could walk into the picture. But then again, there are those who would walk into places most of us wouldn't want to venture...


Cheers,


------------------


Brett
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·


Hi Guys!


Still on the quest. The only way to get me to kill this thread is to steer me straight into an RPTV - without a helmet! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


Has anyone heard of a high scan rate capable CRT RPTV? I know many have limited on board electronics, less voltage cranking into the tubes, and electrostatic focus control which is no match for FPTVs. But some must have at least somewhat better specs than others, and electronics with a bit more that can be squeezed out of them.


What of the recent Wega Series of Sony sets? Even if it has artifacts and a lousy black level, at least it boasts a much higher resolution than the low definition RPTVs sold in Europe. Has anyone here seen its output with film material? TIA.


------------------


Brett
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
I have a Runco 991RP,which is rear projection model using the Runco 991 series projector.The 991 model is normally only used as a front projector ,but Runco set it up with f 1.1 lens in order to use it in a rear projection unit they designed.I beleive it is available in very high scan rate configurations.You can get the specs at www.runco.com The problem is it is very expensive.I picked one up used at a steep discount when Unity Motion folded or it would have been way out of my price range.The picture is gorgeous.You might want to check it out.Is it the best bang for the buck ?,probably not.


[This message has been edited by stevesiu (edited 01-18-2001).]


[This message has been edited by stevesiu (edited 01-18-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
362 Posts
These CRT-based RPTVs weight betweem 250 and 300 pounds and need to be handled with care. When they get to where they're going, they should be properly converged by an ISF tech. As an alternate to these heavy CRT sets, there are a number of digital chip-based RPTVs on the market now and more of them are scheduled to appear shortly. They should weigh in at less than a hundred pounds and set up is not a problem. I thinking of the several DLP sets, the JVC D'Ahlia, the Samsung fLCDs (due this spring, 43 and 50 inch sets at 6K and 5K respectively), as well as the RCA LCOS system due this summer at between 6 and 8 K. Just a thought.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·


Steve,


That sounds like it is really the ticket! If not best bang for the buck due to its prohibitive price, it must be the best price is no object RPTV.


Now if only I could stumble onto a deal like yours... its top notch specs would make it a worthwhile long term future proof investment. I'll have to mosey down to my local pawn shop to see if they've got one taking up too much floor space. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif


Good to know this baby exists. I noticed that their DTV-992 Ultra FPTV has 8" CRTs, does the DTV-991 RPTV have the same tubes? These must be the only electromagnetic focus RPTVs commercially produced. What really sounds good is the former's specs: horizontal scan rate frequency of 15-110 kHz and broad vertical scan range of 37-200 Hz - that Rocks! Does your 64 incher have the special diffusion screen or a high brightness screen? Do you watch DVDs or LDs on it? Have you compared its picture to that of front projectors? Thanks for clueing me in on this one.


------------------


Brett
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
172 Posts
I think it uses the same 8" crt's as the 992 but I'm not sure.I received no written documentation with the set.Better to email Runco.The screen is a high output fresnel which I beleive is manufactured by Stewart.It provides a very bright image so one could easily view the picture with all the room lights on and window blinds open though I don't.I watch mostly DVD's and whatever HD I can get off the UM receiver and Directv HBO HD ch's 509 and 199.It is much brighter than any front crt projector I have seen though you wont get edge focus as sharp due to the extremely short throw lenses they had to use in a RP setup.Please see Widescreen Review issue no.35 by Gary Reber at http://db.widescreenreview.com ] titled "Super HDTV: DTV-991RP Projector for more info.I'm sure it would cost a small fortune to ship to France.


[This message has been edited by stevesiu (edited 01-18-2001).]


[This message has been edited by stevesiu (edited 01-18-2001).]
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
946 Posts
Here is my suggestion without you having to wear a helmet. PIONEER ELITE PRO 710. THE BEST RPTV IN THE WORLD EVEN WITH THE 7 INCH CRT'S. THE PICTURE IS WOW !!!


Sujeet


------------------

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·


Steve,


Thanks for the link to the article Super HDTV: DTV-991RP Projector. For others interested, as it is long you will have to copy and paste in this URL: http://db.widescreenreview.com/equip...recid=4&-find=


Sure would be nice to find a B-stock unit or a demo model... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/cool.gif



Bill,


Appreciate the advice. You are the second person to say that the Elite model is top notch. Do you know what scan rates it accepts? Have you had a chance to see the Runco's display? Thanks.




------------------


Brett
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,175 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by bills2k:
Here is my suggestion without you having to wear a helmet. PIONEER ELITE PRO 710. THE BEST RPTV IN THE WORLD EVEN WITH THE 7 INCH CRT'S. THE PICTURE IS WOW !!!


Sujeet

I have the Elite 610HD, (58', the 710 is 64'). I bought it after extensive evaluation, including actually returning another brand after a week. They are expensive. They have 7 inch CRT's, not 9'. They are still the best RPTV's for the money. The Phillips 64PH9905 is also really nice, and has 9' crt's. It's also almost $2000 more than the Elite 710. My 610 was over $3000 cheaper (but is 6' smaller, not that I really notice). After evaluating the 64PH9905, my conclusion was that the picture was not $2000 better, in fact there were hardly any differences - to my eyes, anyway (and yes, they were properly calibrated and in a nice, dark HT environment, not a store floor).


More to the point for your situation, Pioneer Elite's are quality products with very high satisfaction rates and very low maintenance. calls. The same cannot be said for Phillips, as you know.


The Mits, Toshiba's, etc are all also nice, and are even cheaper, but they really aren't in the same league.



------------------

Ix (The planet of technology in the book Dune for the geeks out there)

My Opinions may be wrong when compared to yours www.maximumgamer.com

[email protected]


[This message has been edited by Ix (edited 01-19-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·


Ix,


A most welcome assessment of the Elite's picture quality. While it is probably expensive, it probably is only a fraction of the cost of a Runco unit. Your observations of the Philips' picture is however of interest to me, as although they have just about the worst reputation for unreliability, the Philips World Headquarters in located at Eindoven in the Netherlands, and I doubt that their leading support technicians would refuse help with a service call - even though they don't sell this model in Europe. Getting service for a Pioneer Elite here wouldn't be that much easier.


So the hunt is still on...


------------------


Brett
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
122 Posts
Brett,

I can't get into the esoterics of which RPTV is better (although I own a TW56X81) am extremely happy, but I can give you some basic advice as I am in sort of the reverse situation as you. I brought Philips PAL equipment from Europe to the US. When my VCR went belly up, I was able to get it repaired in the US at their Tennesse facility. When my Canon Camcorder went belly up I could find no one to service it and had to mail it back to France. i.e The chances of having a Japanese branded RPTV fixed in Europe are slim. At worst you might have to ship a Philips to Eindhoven.


I also have a question on what you intend to watch. DVD's only or TV as well. No (consumer) major brand RPTV HD ready that I have found supports the scan frequencies required by PAL/SECAM. Were you intending to get a scaler or converter and if so what ? The reason I ask is that I intend to take mine back next year and am looking for a solution that will scale PAL/SECAM to either 1080I or 540P instead of 480I. (i.e I wanto to preserve as much resolution as possible). I've looked at the Tenlab, but was hoping for something a little bit better that would not break the bank.

Any advice would be appreciated.


Steve
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,736 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·


Hi Steve,


Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I had no answer.


I've narrowed down my search to an Elite model - and will be now investigating how to best input Pal/Secam signals.


Drop me an e-mail so that I have your address, and I'll keep you updated as soon as I've got a solution.


Best wishes,



------------------


Brett
 
1 - 20 of 20 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top