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High resolution but low contrast?

1051 Views 12 Replies 7 Participants Last post by  tm22721
I wanted to ask a general question about determining the quality of all-round images from projectors, but didn't know where to ask it.


I was looking at a Barco projector and noticed it's one of the 1080 x 1920 resolutions but it's contrast was only 800! I was and am still considering buying a projector from China with a higher contrast than that.


But my question is, if the contrast is obviously not a must have feature for a good projector, at least as far as the price for the Barco projectors is concerned, then what is it, that determines a good or even great projector?


Perhaps it is the high lumens this Barco model had of 6000 ?


The Sony VPL VW100 I also wanted only had 1200 lumens, but a contrast of up to 15,000. . .


So what is it that determines the great or not so great viewing quality of a projector? Is it just the resolution? because both the above mentioned Barco and Sony projectors ask a very high price and and only seem to have high resolution in common. Any explanation would be very appreciated. Thanks.
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You're going to get as many answers as there are participants in this forum.


The tradeoffs between brightness, resolution, color saturation/accuracy and contrast/black keep shifting and improving. Personally speaking, I have never been impressed with relatively dim projectors (300-500 lumens) that boast astronomical contrast/black numbers but sacrifice image "punch" to get them. Similarly, your 6000 lumen Barco with only 800CR is not suitable for HT use IMO.


Then, of course, you introduce the question of single chip vs. three-chip (I prefer the latter strongly) and the question of 720P vs. 1080P, and then on-board processing vs. separate video processor, etc. etc.


Finally, there's the question of price. Are $30K projectors 10x better than $3K ones? Looking at the current crop of new projectors, that would be a hard case to make IMO.


My ideal projector is about 1500 lumens, at least 6000 real CR, very closely converged three chip, long throw capability. I am not convinced that, for my seating distance and viewing habits, that 1080P would be mandatory if I were buying today but I expect it to become the standard in relatively short order so if I trade up next year, that will probably be what I end up with.


Who'd a thunk we'd have projectors like this new Pearl and the Panny 100 for prices that are 25% or less of what we were paying for similar performance three years ago?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcstirbl
I was looking at a Barco projector and noticed it's one of the 1080 x 1920 resolutions but it's contrast was only 800! I was and am still considering buying a projector from China with a higher contrast than that.


But my question is, if the contrast is obviously not a must have feature for a good projector, at least as far as the price for the Barco projectors is concerned, then what is it, that determines a good or even great projector?


.
Let me be the first to assure you, contrast, more importantly, contrast ratio, is important. (Especially for HT) IMO, it is what separates the CRT world from the digital world more than anything else. It is, IMO, what sparates good projection from great projection.
Resolution, measured with high-contrast lines within test patterns, could indicate full 1920X1080 resolvability for a display. But, if the display's contrast is inadequate, HD motion-video images could appear poorly because fine image details lack the high contrast of test patterns. Greg Rogers discusses contrast in his article about HDTV and CRT FPs (search for contrast)-- John
Dear Dan,

Thanks for your input and quick response. But obviously Ive heard of brightness, resolution and contrast, but where do you ever find any specs on "color saturation/accuracy? I dont ever remember seeing that on projectorcentral. Also when you say "HT" What is that?


Another thing I dont understand. Im sure you are right, but you say you prefer the 3 chip vs. the single chip. Shouldn't visual quality be literally a matter of right and wrong and not so much in the eye of the beholder. My vision is about 20/30, but even if someone had 20/10 eagle vision, higher visual quality shouldnt be so much a matter of opinion, as it should just be better quality or not. Im learning new words and terminology in this subject but it doesnt seem to get any easier, at least for me.


I also have no idea what on-board processing is vs. separate video processor.


You conclude by saying that your ideal projector is 1500 lumens and 6000CR and the 3 chip technology thing again, but is that your ideal projector or is that the ideal projector for anyone who can see any better than 20/20 vision or whatever? By saying that 6000CR is ideal for you, then I guess you are saying that the Sony VPL-VW100 of 15,000 contrast is more than you can notice? Is it only for people with Superman vision?


Last question, you say you prefer long throw capability. Is that for making a big screen from having the projector close to the screen or having a small screen from the projector being far away? I thought the point of the long-throw and short-throw lenses was just so that the projectors could be fastened to wherever they are aesthetically least ojectionable, assuming that the picture quality remains the same.


Sorry for even more questions. But I really want to understand a few more things before I buy at least one of these projectors.
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Dear CMRA,


When I go to projectorcentral, it just says contrast, it never mentions anything about contrast ratio, let alone does it make any distinction between the 2 criteria. So what is the difference between the "contrast" value and the "contrast ratio" value?


And also you use the HT word again, I couldnt find that in the glossary. Is HT the same as HD?


But at least I understand you say that contrast is very important, which makes a lot of sense to me since they range from almost nothing to 15,000. But does the type or color of screen help in this matter? I was planning to get a grey screen tomorrow, because I thought it is just right in between white and black and therefore helpful to the black and white contrast "ratio" values? Or do you think its better to get a white screen, like everybody else?
And John,


Im almost ashamed to admit, but Im still trying to read, and study and just about memorize that 20 page document you linked me with. I'll probably have to start about another 20 threads to really understand it, but thanks for sending it to me. Its immensely loaded with detailed information.
As interesting as that Greg Rogers article is, it is pretty dated, and really doesn't have anything that covers contrast ratios and performance very well.


Here is Darin's write-up which is quite excellent, if a bit involved/advanced for a beginner:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...06-part-1.html
Yeah, I was going to say it seems a little outdated, but I thought that was just the first few pages. But this new article you sent me looks super up-to-date. I hope that your slogan of perpetually confused isnt due to all the information in these articles. But thanks for sending it to me, I'll start studying right now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcstirbl
Dear CMRA,


When I go to projectorcentral, it just says contrast, it never mentions anything about contrast ratio, let alone does it make any distinction between the 2 criteria. So what is the difference between the "contrast" value and the "contrast ratio" value?


And also you use the HT word again, I couldnt find that in the glossary. Is HT the same as HD?


But at least I understand you say that contrast is very important, which makes a lot of sense to me since they range from almost nothing to 15,000. But does the type or color of screen help in this matter? I was planning to get a grey screen tomorrow, because I thought it is just right in between white and black and therefore helpful to the black and white contrast "ratio" values? Or do you think its better to get a white screen, like everybody else?
My, you are new, grasshopper.


HT=Home Theater

HD=High Definition

FP=Front Projection

PJ=Projector

CR=Contrast Ratio


The ideal PJ offers plenty of lumens, high resolution, precision optics and high CR. The perfect PJ offers the same at an affordable price.

You have got some reading to do.
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The short of it ,get a projector with enough lumens to give you minimally 10 to 12fL of reflected light from your screen with the highest possible on /off CR. Depending on your seating distance, on /off CR may be more important than resolution even, in giving a great picture.


Art
Dear Chris,


Yes you're right it is a bit a advanced for a beginner. I think its even a little too advanced for a professor. I dont think I can understand that, atleast not the first chapter, but I did at least print all 6 chapters. Its just too technical for me, hopefully not forever.
Yes the term 'Home Theater' is very interesting, we almost take it for granted here.


But it has traditionally meant that we are trying to reproduce the experience of a commerical film theater in our homes.


For the past week I have been watching 1080 HD on my new Pearl and I would argue that we have progressed well beyond the 'HT' criteria, at least to my eyes. Vibrant, film-like 3D images that my local theater is hard pressed to compete against except for a 40' screen.


YMMV
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