[Health Nut]

As many of you know, it seems like a lot of driver manufacturers have closed doors. Adire Audio was a great supplier before they closed. Not sure what happened to TC Sounds... I'm just not sure who and what represents the highest end of subwoofer drivers these days. Choices?


I suppose these are from TC sounds are no longer available...

http://www.audiopulse.com/products/s...vers/lms-ultra

 

[aduljr]

those were some great subs. Currently you can check out the maelstrom-x from exoduis audio. Great sub for the money. I think AE has a couple of ones worthy of looking at as well. TC sounds is sold under audio pulse on parts express. The LMS Ultra sadly isnt around.

 

[robertcharles]



Quote:
Originally Posted by aduljr /forum/post/16938424


those were some great subs. Currently you can check out the maelstrom-x from exoduis audio. Great sub for the money. I think AE has a couple of ones worthy of looking at as well. TC sounds is sold under audio pulse on parts express. The LMS Ultra sadly isnt around.

Maybe Kyle can give some inside info on this. 12-15 18's would be a good sale if they are LMS Ultras. Big bucks just for the drivers.

 

[DL86]

 http://www.eighteensound.com/index.a...roduct&pid=286

 

[aduljr]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/16938868

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.a...roduct&pid=286

interesting, anyone use it yet?

 

[vasyachkin]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/16938868

http://www.eighteensound.com/index.a...roduct&pid=286

135mm diameter voice coil. eighteen sound joins the club ?


that's it. 4" voice coils are now officially PASSE for high-SPL under-the-pole magnet woofers. the game is now at 5+"


JBL 2269 is not really a high-SPL woofer ... its more like a hybrid cross between a high SPL woofer and a HT subwoofer. i shall allow a 4" VC there for the time being.


also 21" woofer continues its march. everything is going according to the plan as i have outlined it.

 

[Health Nut]

The bigger the driver the better... makes displacement that much easier... 21" would be great...

 

[LTD02]

what are your constraints?


size?


cost?


# of amps?


power per channel?


series/parallel wiring limitations?


how large is your room? where will pressure vessel gain kick in?


just some questions to get you started.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Health Nut /forum/post/16939528


The bigger the driver the better... makes displacement that much easier... 21" would be great...

Not if its xmax is 8 mm

displacement = Surface Area x Xmax


You need BOTH!

 

[DL86]

What I found with my eighteensound 21lw1400 driver, is the actual excursion is actually quite a bit more than the rated mathematical xmax of 9.5mm when playing extra low frequency content at high spl's. I don't think the published xmax tells you everything about the actual displacement of a driver in reality.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/16940046


What I found with my eighteensound 21lw1400 driver, is the actual excursion is actually quite a bit more than the rated mathematical xmax of 9.5mm when playing extra low frequency content at high spl's. I don't think the published xmax tells you everything about the actual displacement of a driver in reality.

incorrect...displacement is a mathematical formula! and its EXACT! We can measure any Xmax physically so its not a "mathematical" number at all.


Again displacement = Sd x Xmax (I think P to P, so multiply by 2)


your 21" driver does not have the displacement my 18" does! Your 9.5mm isn't much and the 18 sound driver is not considered a viable low end subwoofer around here.


Fine for 30Hz and above but this is about ultra low end! Isnt it?

 

[vasyachkin]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16940068


incorrect...displacement is a mathematical formula! and its EXACT! We can measure any Xmax physically so its not a "mathematical" number at all.


Again displacement = Sd x Xmax (I think P to P, so multiply by 2)


your 21" driver does not have the displacement my 18" does! Your 9.5mm isn't much and the 18 sound driver is not considered a viable low end subwoofer around here.


Fine for 30Hz and above but this is about ultra low end! Isnt it?

SILENCE INFIDEL !


the difference between a 21" eighteen sound and a 12" TC Sounds is that while both have about the same linear displacement on one of them you can reliably use 100% of that displacement 100% of the time ( eighteen sound ) and on another one as soon as you exceed the limit IT BLOWS UP !


you probably need less than half the power to reach the same LF output using 18 sound as compared to TC sounds yet 18 sound will probably handle 2 if not 4 times the power on a transient before damage.


in that sense TC Sounds is like dodge viper. you get a lot of grip but once you exceed the limit by even 1% you're dead. eighteen sound is more like Nissan GTR meaning it may be just a little slower but it's looking out for your a$$ rather than trying to kill you.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vasyachkin /forum/post/16940168


SILENCE INFIDEL !


the difference between a 21" eighteen sound and a 12" TC Sounds is that while both have about the same linear displacement on one of them you can reliably use 100% of that displacement 100% of the time ( eighteen sound ) and on another one as soon as you exceed the limit IT BLOWS UP !


you probably need less than half the power to reach the same LF output using 18 sound as compared to TC sounds yet 18 sound will probably handle 2 if not 4 times the power on a transient before damage.


in that sense TC Sounds is like dodge viper. you get a lot of grip but once you exceed the limit by even 1% you're dead. eighteen sound is more like Nissan GTR meaning it may be just a little slower but it's looking out for your a$$ rather than trying to kill you.

I do not have 12" subwoofers in my different rooms

its not even the driver I used as an example in this thread.


but since you are using the TC sounds I will say that the Xmech is damn good too and its more then 1% before it blows up. TC Sounds HAD a great rep for building drivers that can be punished.


Of course your opinion had nothing to do with the specific discussion.


They say displacement is more then just an equation. Its not its simply a formula and that 21" woofer has less then 1/3 the xmax of many of the popular subwoofers that actually do perform down to 15Hz.


Is it a nice woofer for full range mains? Im sure it is, but its not a SUBwoofer!


btw, you should spend less time ranting and more time spending money and building but I guess when you can not do one you only have the other

 

[DL86]

The real displacement is actually closer to 20mm one way than the published mathematical 9.5mm one way.


I'm getting a flat response to about 23Hz in room possibly even lower with reduced tuning and a bigger enclosure, although I pegged the tuning of the box to 30Hz on purpose for higher SPL in the upper ranges. I could easily go down to 15Hz in my room with this 21inch woofer if I had put the tuning around 20Hz and at 20Hz I would still be getting about 91db efficiency with that tuning, which I believe isn't a worthy trade off for sacrificing upper end. The eighteensound shakes the whole neighborhood and vibrates my rib cage violently, you gotta be kidding me its not a true subwoofer.

 

[vasyachkin]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16940210


you should spend less time ranting and more time spending money

you remind me of my friend who always used to say that i don't drink enough vodka.


every 30 seconds he would be like " come on George, drink some vodka! come on! vodka! come on! drink some! "


maybe you two should hang out together.

 

[2100]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/16940257


The eighteensound shakes the whole neighborhood and vibrates my rib cage violently, you gotta be kidding me its not a true subwoofer.

If you like it big there is a bigger one....

Used in Turbosound TSW-124

http://www.precision-devices.com/asp...s/super/17.pdf

http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Serious-Sub.html

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/16940257


The real displacement is actually closer to 20mm one way than the published mathematical 9.5mm one way.


I'm getting a flat response to about 23Hz in room possibly even lower with reduced tuning and a bigger enclosure, although I pegged the tuning of the box to 30Hz on purpose for higher SPL in the upper ranges. I could easily go down to 15Hz in my room with this 21inch woofer if I had put the tuning around 20Hz and at 20Hz I would still be getting about 91db efficiency with that tuning, which I believe isn't a worthy trade off for sacrificing upper end. The eighteensound shakes the whole neighborhood and vibrates my rib cage violently, you gotta be kidding me its not a true subwoofer.

what do you mean by published mathematically? I never knew anyone published anything but true physical Xmax...if its 20mm then its much better.


We all can scare the neighborhood, I have 4 18" and 27 liters of displacement in one room and 20Liters of displacement in another room myself.

And if it isnt flat to 10Hz, you are not going to impress me at all

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by vasyachkin /forum/post/16940393


you remind me of my friend who always used to say that i don't drink enough vodka.


every 30 seconds he would be like " come on George, drink some vodka! come on! vodka! come on! drink some! "


maybe you two should hang out together.

No Im saying you have a lot of hot wind and ZERO build threads for a person with so much opinion you really do lack what really matters around here

Im not against opinion but I do try to build as much as I can

 

[Ricci]

I do like that 18Sound driver...I also like these...

http://www.bcspeakers.com/product.php?id=0000000160
http://www.bcspeakers.com/product.php?id=0000000162
http://www.bmspro.info/fileadmin/bms...ta_2009_06.pdf
http://www.faitalpro.com/products/sc...p?id=201070130

 

[catapult]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16940068


incorrect...displacement is a mathematical formula! and its EXACT! We can measure any Xmax physically so its not a "mathematical" number at all.

Not so fast, Grasshopper.

The published Xmax is usually just voice-coil overhang. But the real usable Xmax is more like the Klippel method that Brandon is emulating in his tests. It's the excursion where distortion, either THD or IMD hits 10%. Then cut that in half if you want really clean sound.