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I enjoyed it too.
 

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I do like enough aspects of this to keep going (armored polar bears!). I can only hope this world of daemon companions embodying a person's soul or whatever makes more sense and has more internal consistency in the books, because right now in the show I see no benefits to having a vulnerable critter following you everywhere whose advice you ignore more often than not.
 

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Discussion Starter #124
I do like enough aspects of this to keep going (armored polar bears!). I can only hope this world of daemon companions embodying a person's soul or whatever makes more sense and has more internal consistency in the books, because right now in the show I see no benefits to having a vulnerable critter following you everywhere whose advice you ignore more often than not.
it's not meant to be a benefit or a drawback...it's supposed to represent the human soul...it's not like the people in this world have a choice whether or not they have one...they just exist in the world...they change form during a child's early years and takes its final form after puberty...the final form is based on who they are as a person- hence Boreal gets a snake...grabbing someone's daemon during a fight is probably considered taboo or a cheap shot
 

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it's not meant to be a benefit or a drawback...it's supposed to represent the human soul...it's not like the people in this world have a choice whether or not they have one...they just exist in the world...they change form during a child's early years and takes its final form after puberty...the final form is based on who they are as a person- hence Boreal gets a snake...
I get all that. I meant benefits in a general sense, beyond the daemon being an obvious weakness or nuisance rather than a strength. The show is doing a poor and inconsistent job of showing the advantages of having this or that animal as a daemon, along with the general benefits this kind of relationship offers in an individual's development, other than to serve as a Jiminy Cricket-type voice ("Don't do that!" "Someone is coming!") that's ignored more often than not it seems.

grabbing someone's daemon during a fight is probably considered taboo or a cheap shot
Probably? Who knows? You certainly wouldn't know from watching the first half of the series at least. It's just poor world-building that the show doesn't take into account the daemon vulnerability in a consistent way. They could've at least made it clear, for example, that harming someone's daemon is punishable by death. Instead, it seems the worst thing you can do in this world is say the word "dust." :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #126
The show is doing a poor and inconsistent job of showing the advantages of having this or that animal as a daemon, along with the general benefits this kind of relationship offers in an individual's development, other than to serve as a Jiminy Cricket-type voice ("Don't do that!" "Someone is coming!") that's ignored more often than not it seems
characters do talk about wishing they had a different daemon- a lion for example...and Farder Coram does mention to Lara on the boat that he used to wish he had a different daemon (his is a cat)...I think the fact that they can't show every character's daemon probably adds to the confusion...the show doesn't do a good enough job of showing how connected the daemons are to their human counterparts...thinking of them as your soul is a better way of looking at them versus just as spirit animals
 

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Probably? Who knows? You certainly wouldn't know from watching the first half of the series at least. It's just poor world-building that the show doesn't take into account the daemon vulnerability in a consistent way. They could've at least made it clear, for example, that harming someone's daemon is punishable by death. Instead, it seems the worst thing you can do in this world is say the word "dust." :rolleyes:
Poor world-building - agreed.

Realism - even in a fantasy, unless it's a Never Ending Story type, some form of realism is needed to make me buy into the world.

For those who like the show, are you OK with a person falling out of a balloon that's at least hundreds of ft maybe 1000 ft in the air, brush herself off, and trek on as if nothing had happened? Even in snow, falling couple hundred ft would either most likely break bones, outright kill you, at the minimum hurt really really bad :rolleyes:

We were at the International Balloon Festival in Albuquerque last fall and there was an accident with injuries, and this was just a hard landing where 2 people were thrown out of the gondola when it hit. And there's skydiving accidents & deaths from several hundred ft falls with chute problems.

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/07/768127861/2-injured-in-new-mexico-hot-air-balloon-accident

I'm very ready to suspend disbelief in all sci-fi & fantasy but the last time I checked, earth gravity is still 1G and no one in this world was walking like they were on the moon's 1/6 G.

I love all kinds of mysteries as well as sci-fi and good fantasy so am not opposed to waiting for the big answers but a 2 hr movie is one thing, waiting until the last 15 minutes of an 8 hr series to explain what's going on is asking a lot of a viewer. Sort of watching Dr Who, when in the last 3 minutes, a timey-wimey mcguffin happens and saves the day.

This isn't Twin Peaks or Mulholland Drive - its a fantasy for all ages so was it necessary to make it hard to figure out & accept its world? But clearly I'm in the minority because most viewers & reviewers enjoyed it.

Among countless scifi novels I read as a kid was A Wrinkle in Time by Madeleine L'Engle. I remember really liking it. Even though I knew it didn't get good reviews, I bought & watched the movie & the reviews were dead-on. His Dark Materials kind of reminds me of watching Wrinkle in Time the movie.
 

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Discussion Starter #128
Poor world-building - agreed.

Realism - even in a fantasy, unless it's a Never Ending Story type, some form of realism is needed to make me buy into the world.

For those who like the show, are you OK with a person falling out of a balloon that's at least hundreds of ft maybe 1000 ft in the air, brush herself off, and trek on as if nothing had happened? Even in snow, falling couple hundred ft would either most likely break bones, outright kill you, at the minimum hurt really really bad :rolleyes:
I agree that was ridiculous...I thought one of the flying witches was going to come and save her...having her fall and not suffer any injuries much less death was pretty crazy...but you keep leaving out any mention of daemons in all your posts...that is the most unique thing about the books/series...one of my main issues with the show was how in your face the religious overtones were...for me it's more about the potential of the next 2 books rather then how amazing this first book was
 

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They don’t have the budget for all the daemons. In scenes with a lot of people on screen, only a few daemons are visible.

They noted in the episode where Iorek takes Lyra across the tundra, it busted their CGI budget for the episode so they don’t show Pan as much that ep.

Also in the books they depict the relationship between daemon and person as deeply emotional, much more than people and dogs in our world.

Not just representation of their soul but like cuddle buddies, especially the children and their daemons.
 

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They don’t have the budget for all the daemons. In scenes with a lot of people on screen, only a few daemons are visible.

They noted in the episode where Iorek takes Lyra across the tundra, it busted their CGI budget for the episode so they don’t show Pan as much that ep.

Also in the books they depict the relationship between daemon and person as deeply emotional, much more than people and dogs in our world.

Not just representation of their soul but like cuddle buddies, especially the children and their daemons.
That makes a lot more sense that the daemon would be more like a family pet. I don't get the emotional attachment at all in the show. For adults, the daemons, when shown, almost seem like a status symbol or veiled threat when it's something like a bird of prey or snake. And perhaps due to CGI budget constraints, you don't really see characters cradling the daemon in their arms affectionately or interacting in a playful way; they are mostly shown either running alongside or perched on a shoulder or forearm.

I'm also not getting much of the religious aspect as @TitusTroy mentioned through the first four episodes. If the Magesterium leaders didn't have titles like Father or Cardinal, they could just be any old repressive, authoritarian officials trying to control some truth that would undermine its power. What exactly is the religion? What are their rituals? What do they worship or believe besides "not dust"? Again, poor world building in the TV show.
 

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Discussion Starter #131
Phillip Pullman's anti-God/religion message in the books is well known...it's not a secret...it's totally in your face...the Magisterium= Catholic Church...Dust= original sin...The Authority= God...they tried to ban his books...Pullman told the Washington Post that his aim with the series was to "undermine the basis of Christian belief."...in a 2002 interview with the Guardian, he said organized religion is necessarily corrupt..."Whenever you get a political structure, with ranks and hierarchies, you get corruption," he argued, "you get people who are more interested in progressing through those ranks than in doing good. Power corrupts."

In a 2003 conversation with the Sydney Herald he summed up his plot: "My books are about killing God."
 

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Phillip Pullman's anti-God/religion message in the books is well known...it's not a secret...it's totally in your face...the Magisterium= Catholic Church...Dust= original sin...The Authority= God...they tried to ban his books...Pullman told the Washington Post that his aim with the series was to "undermine the basis of Christian belief."...in a 2002 interview with the Guardian, he said organized religion is necessarily corrupt..."Whenever you get a political structure, with ranks and hierarchies, you get corruption," he argued, "you get people who are more interested in progressing through those ranks than in doing good. Power corrupts."

In a 2003 conversation with the Sydney Herald he summed up his plot: "My books are about killing God."
But not knowing any of that context personally, I'm not getting any of that from the first four episodes other than the Magesterium is a generically oppressive and authoritarian theocracy with obvious parallels to the Catholic church (already the subject of frequent critique and satire in a wide variety of media and contexts; i.e., nothing really shocking or unusual about whatever commentary Pullman is making here). I'd probably enjoy this much more if Pullman's views came across more strongly. ;)
 

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...but you keep leaving out any mention of daemons in all your posts...that is the most unique thing about the books/series
Sorry not to reply on this issue...I didn't really have a negative or positive issue with the concept or the animals. I think (what do I know?), that in the end, they reflect in someway, somehow the human's inner self (hate to use soul). The most obvious examples of the bad ones is the monkey & snake. The monkey is really a mean nasty creature and so is Coulter. And the guy who keeps crossing over, forget his name (all he did was act nefarious, sneaky & willing to kill people), obviously a snake fits. As far as the good people, I don't know how they match up. Lyra's appears mostly as a weasel/rodent type creature so that's not exactly endearing but she's inquisitive & her rodent seems to be too so maybe they fit. Who knows...

As far as the philosophical connotations of daemons or the story, I don't have a problem how they relate. Actually, I accepted the daemons & their behavior more than the actors ;) As far as the anti-organized-religion/anti-theocracy aspects of the author's intent, I don't have an issue at all. I would have liked the series much more if they had made that more obvious and gotten more in the weeds with it and make it more adult-themed. I think I could have related more to it plus I like edgy shows anyway :D

We can all agree or disagree. Lively discussion is good! I was reluctant to even go here due to sensibilities but I won't be posting further on the so-called religious aspects of the story. I like my AVS forum membership :)

I remember the thread on Neal Tyson Degrasse's Cosmos, a harmless science documentary! Some folks got really worked up about certain perspectives and ended up no one could have a rational discussion of science & historical facts! - posts got deleted & warnings sent. Sticking to the show & banshee shrieks is safe ;) No one gets offended.
 

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HBO released the full episode of season 1 episode 1 on-line.

Posting in case anyone doesn't have HBO and wanted to check it out to see if it is worth it.


 

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Discussion Starter #136
His Dark Materials Adds Superman Baddie, Two More to Season 2 Cast

Terrence Stamp, who voiced Jor-El in Smallville and played General Zod in the Superman films, has signed on to portray Giacomo Paradisi in the HBO series. As readers of Philip Pullman’s book trilogy know, Paradisi shows up in the novel series’ second installment, The Subtle Knife, as the onetime bearer of the titular weapon

In addition, Jade Anouka (Turn Up Charlie) has been cast as witch queen Ruta Skadi, who helps Serafina Pekkala fight the Magisterium. And Simone Kirby (Peaky Blinders) will play Dr. Mary Malone, head of the Dark Matter Research Team at Oxford University...

https://tvline.com/2020/07/23/his-dark-materials-terrence-stamp-season-2-cast/
 

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How HBO's His Dark Materials dives deeper into Philip Pullman's fantasy novels

Jane Tranter, the champion of HBO and BBC’s His Dark Materials understands why the movie adaptation never took off...“Philip’s books are as deep as they are wide,” she explains. “They exist on many levels and they have a terrific breadth of location stories. That’s very hard for a film to capture.”...it’s this passion, channeled by Tranter, that ultimately sold HBO and the BBC in 2018 on granting an initial 16-episode order: eight for season 1 to tackle The Golden Compass and eight for season 2 (already in production) for the parallel-world plots of The Subtle Knife, the second book...the idea is to produce a third season for the trilogy’s capper, The Amber Spyglass, next...

https://ew.com/tv/2019/09/13/his-dark-materials-tv-series-book-expansions/

good to know that Season 2 is already in production and a 3rd season is planned to wrap up the trilogy
Personally, I liked the movie, however, a TV adaption of any book with significant detail in it can always go where no movie can. An example I will give is the Sy-Fy Channel's Dune which I thought was far better than the movie from 1984.

One possible reason given for the Golden Compass movie failure in the US is because the Vatican basically deemed it blaspheme. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...romotes a cold and hopeless world without God.
Without a strong showing in the US, there was talk about no chance for a franchise at the time.
 

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Trailer says premier in Fall.

So presumably if it airs in the Fall on HBO, it may be a month or two earlier on BBC.


That's some turnaround, since season 1 aired in November and December.

But the young lead actress is noticeably more mature. So season 1 may have been filmed like a couple of years ago and season 2 filmed last year? Or at any rate before the pandemic?
 

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Personally, I liked the movie, however, a TV adaption of any book with significant detail in it can always go where no movie can. An example I will give is the Sy-Fy Channel's Dune which I thought was far better than the movie from 1984.

One possible reason given for the Golden Compass movie failure in the US is because the Vatican basically deemed it blaspheme. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...romotes a cold and hopeless world without God.
Without a strong showing in the US, there was talk about no chance for a franchise at the time.
I didn't see the movie but people pointed out in the series that they didn't have too many daemons on screen at once, probably a more limited digital budget.

I remember one of the production people said that they blew out the digital fx budget for the episode with the sequence of the girl riding the polar bear across the polar tundra at light. They didn't show her daemon much in that episode because of the cost.
 
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