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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Been considering an HK, but keep reading about "drop-out" problem. Some people have returned the item because they couldn't live with it. Others say it is "no big deal".


Could someone please describe what the problem is - in simple language for the layman (don't understand what it means to "switch layers"). When would I experience the problem? e.g., I thought someone said it happened every time they change tv channels, others say they miss the first two seconds of a movie (doesn't sound like the worst problem), ... What are the work-arounds people have come up with?
 

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Well, I can talk about the current models, avr430 and avr630. The drop out occurs when there is a switch in digital streams, (ie going from prologic to dolby digital). It is approx less than 2 seconds (so you miss the very first part of the THX intro on dvds that have it), but there is no drop out for the layer change. I am also using a denon 3800, so i have yet to see a layer change when watching a dvd. I have received an email from HK customer support stating they have seen the problem and are working on it.

For me, it was not a deal killer, its only an annoyance either when changing channels when watching HD broadcasting, or if I want to hear the entire THX intro. It certainly does not affect the performance of the unit, as my 430 pumps out the most amazing sound with amazing clarity, I cannot recommend it enough. The amps in this thing are amazing. For me, I would never give up such amazing performance for just a small, minor issue, that has no impact whatsoever. But I agree with those that say this should not be an issue, after spending that kind of money, yeah, it should work like the bargain basement receivers, so I am certainly not condoning it.
 

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I have somewhat the same issue with my Denon 3200 reciever...when flipping through channels on direct-tv, if I flip to or from Dolby Digital from non-dolby digital, the reciver takes a second or 2 to lock in the signal. I'm assuming this is the same problem. To me, I dont find it a big deal, becuse the video is switching too...and it takes a second or two for the OSD to go away. I live with it, and it doesn't bother me. I do have a 7200 or order, and will report back if there is a bigger difference with the H/K model.
 

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Eric, I'm in the same boat as jwilock. Doing a lot of research on receivers and leaning towards the 630. BUT... I'm technically challenged and don't want to mess with the upgrade if/when it is released by HK. Hoping the issue gets fixed in the next month and I can purchase a 630 with less uncertainty. Understand what you're saying about this being a relatively small issue but I hate to pay $750 for something that is in need of a patch.


Can you explain what THX intro is so I can better understand what exactly I may be missing. I do not currently have HD but as soon as I purchase a tuner for my HD ready TV, I will have HD. Thanks.
 

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Sully11-

Its the THX trailer that you get on any films that are THX certified, like Toy Story, or Terminater 2, you get the crescendo from left surround to right surround with the big THX logo on your screen.

Yep, I was there where you were at. Didnt want to drop all that cash and have something like that as a stupid small problem. However, decided to get it anyway just based upon all of the favorable reviews and the amount of bells and whisltles it came with. And when I hooked it up and starting watching new dvds that i got for Christmas, the sound was so impressive, i did not regret this purchase one bit. I guess it all about what one person can tolerate, to me, its insignificant, to others, its a deal killer and unacceptable. But hey, its their gear and hard earned money, and what they are willing to live with. I do hope HK does fix though in the near future.....I still highly recommend these units to anyone.....
 

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I have the HK 525 and am one of those who can live with the drop outs. I don't channel surf ALL that much, so it's not a constant issue for me.


The only time this became bothersome was when I burned an audio CD with 2 second gaps between the tracks. When I played it on the CD player, apparently the gap (which apparently is different from digital silence) was enough for the receiver to wait for another bitstream. I started losing the beginning of every audio track on the CD. I reburned the CD with smaller gaps and now the problem is gone.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by EricHarrison

Well, I can talk about the current models, avr430 and avr630. The drop out occurs when there is a switch in digital streams, (ie going from prologic to dolby digital). ]

I'm looking into the 630. So this is exactly what I am concerned about. Missing the thx intro wouldn't bother me, but I don't understand enough yet to know when/how/why there would be a switch in digital streams. For instance when would you switch from prologic to dolby digital? I know many dvd's have multiple formats on them, but don't you just pick one, or default to one? If you default to one, but want to switch to another, is this when it happens? Can't you "set" the receiver before you start the movie so that it knows what kind of stream is coming in.


Sorry, but as you can see there are some more fundamental things I need to learn before I can understand the real impact of this problem. Thanks for your help.
 

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I have a 630 and I get the audio dropout during a layer change as well as right at the beginning of a DVD..As far as the layer change dropout goes I'm really not sure whether it's the 630 or my Sony DVD player. I'm considering buying another DVD player just so that I can test that particular issue out. I'll let ya know.
 

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For me the "dropout" typically occurs while surfing throught HDTV channels. Some are DD 5.1, some are DD 2.0, still others have no DD audio stream. Moving between these sometimes causes the dropout to occur.


So imagine, your there surfing channels, moving up or down, and when you move to a new channel, you see the image, briefly hear the audio, then the audio is gone, then it comes back. This issue makes surfing annoying.


The dropout for DVDs, for me, is trivial and I can easily deal with it. In this case, typcially the intro/menu music is PCM and then when the movie starts it switches to DD 5.1 and thus a dropout ocurrs and you miss a second or two of the intro.


I have high hopes that h/k will do something to resolve it. If an update becomes available, more than likely, you'll need to hook up the receiver to a PC via a serial cable and run a program that'll do the firmware update - easy if you have a laptop w/serial or an HTPC.
 

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jwilock,


The dropout occurs when there is a change in bitstream format to the processor. This will occur when selecting a different surround format, or when the DVD has one format for the menu, another for the movie, and yet another for the "extras". For instance, you may watch the movie in DTS, the extras often are in Pro Logic, and the menus may only play in Dolby Digital. Each time you select one of these different screens, a 1-2 second dropout will occur. A minor annoyance to be sure, but some cannot tolerate it. Perhaps the worst time it can occur is when returning from the menu screen back to the movie. If the movie is a different format, you will lose 1-2 seconds of sound. I just rewind back a bit. No biggie. Still, it is something I wish they had corrected.


This dropout also can occur when switching zone II operations.
 

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To add to this, I beleive the older models also had the audio dropout after pausing a movie and restarting it. Someone correct me if I wrong on that. When I pause and restart with my player, i do not get the dropout on my 430.


cosgeo-

Its hard to tell with the layer changes if its a problem with the source or not. With my old JVC player and an old Kenwood receiver, I got the dropout everytime with the layer change. So it may be just the layer change and how well the dvd player handles it. I have denon 3800 with a memory buffer (i dont understand why more mfgs dont use that) and I never see a layer change and if I do, which is rare, its very, very subtle.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by nightfly85
For me the "dropout" typically occurs while surfing throught HDTV channels. Some are DD 5.1, some are DD 2.0, still others have no DD audio stream. Moving between these sometimes causes the dropout to occur.


So imagine, your there surfing channels, moving up or down, and when you move to a new channel, you see the image, briefly hear the audio, then the audio is gone, then it comes back. This issue makes surfing annoying.
Not that it is any consolation, but my Yamaha RX-V1400 does the same thing: brief audio, then gone, then comes back when changing channels on Dish network. The dropout is probably about 0.5 sec though. This seems to be fast enough for DVDs as there are no audible droupouts at the beginning of bitstreams like THX intros.
 

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I use a AVR520 for DD/DPLII and have a recent problem with occasional audio loss during very quiet scenes when playing a DVD. At first I suspected the DVD player but I found I got the same loss using a different player and even an analog input (DPLII - coax). I even suspected the DVDs were defective but it happens too frequently now for me to think that anymore. I never have the problem listening to cable TV (DPLII) using an analog input (coax). And the sound never disappears during louder scenes. It is as if the low-level signal from the DVD player is lost by the receiver during quiet scenes only, and maybe background noise keeps it from happening when using TV. I plan to try using a optical connection instead to see if that helps; but the loss also happens with DPLII (video input) which is analog, so I doubt if the digital input type will make a difference. I will contact H/K to see if I am right and this is a problem with the 520. I should still have warranty coverage. Has anyone else experience this with this model?


Dsmith
 

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Frankly, I haven't been able to surf channels since the end of analog cable because of the VIDEO dropout inherent in digital cable/satellite.


Are you guys saying that after the two second delay in acquiring the video signal when changing channels, there is also an additional 2 second delay acquiring the audio signal and switching it if necessary?


One more question. Does this dropout occur every time you change channels, or only when the new channel uses a different digital format?
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by jambon
Does the dropout occur on the 7200 as well?
I have the 7200...and YES it happens.


I have DirecTivo sattelite service...and NEVER get drop outs watching TV...I do not watch any HiDef programming, so everything is in Stereo.


I never get drop out changing layers on DVD...but do when leaving the menus.


Starting CD's is also an issue..but if I care about the first 2 seconds of the first song on the CD I'll punch the rewind-one-track button...


Never happens between songs.


Its an issue that shouldn't be...on any receiver at any price...A $100 Sony can immediately lock-on...


Its an implementation thing...and HK screwed up...BUT they got EVERYTHING else right...so who cares. :D


This thing sounds awesome!
 

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See my response above...Only of the digital format changes...
 

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I have a Marantz SR6200 and the only issue I have is when channel surfing on my DTivo. I don't have much of a drop out, but do have a "pop" that comes through when switching between analog and digital channnels.


Do the HKs give a "pop" through the speakers when switching also? Trying to find out if it's just my power or unit?
 

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Directivo is 100% digital...there are no analog channels..


you might be referring to premium/PPV channels broadcast in DD5.1 vs. most channels broadcast in Stereo.


Check out the Tivo forum...I recall hearing about popping issues...but do not recall the root cause.


The Tivo forums can be found at the top of the AVS page...
 

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This issue goes back, I believe to the X10 series, from HK. My 520 has it, but doesn't bother me on DVDs. I use an optical hook-up for CD player, and it does bug me about loosing 1-2 secs on the start of some CD tracks. This does not happen on all CDs. I would be surprised that HK is going to fix it in existing X30 machines.
 
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