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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Its finally done..well, almost. All thats left is to tweak the color decoder. Red and blue appear to be perfect but green is off slightly. The PC/DVI inputs dont show any place to correct this but I think that correcting the problem on the Ant. Input will fix it across the board. The error appears identical on every input so I hope that fixing one will fix them alleven leaving it the way it is now is fine, its real close OOTB.


The inputs calibrated were:


Antenna shares grayscale settings with C1i

Composite shares grayscale settings with C1i

S-Video shares grayscale settings with C1i

Component 1i Calibrated using CF, Sony DVP-NS900V and Avia/DVE..results were excellent .

Component 1p - Calibrated using CF, Sony DVP-NS900V and Avia/DVE..results were good, gamma is slightly high.

Component 2/3 Have not looked at

PC Calibrated using ATI Radeon 9700, CF and DVEresults are very good

DVI Calibrated using CF, DVD-HD931, Avia and DVE..this one was tricky, I was having trouble with gamma being high and a bubble in the blue drive around 90 IRE. Lowering the blue gain lowered the bubble but caused it to fall off from 50-80 IRE as well. Finally raising the contrast slightly minimized the bubble and lowered the gamma. Its as close as I could get it without pushing the contrast too high.


Something occurred to me that Ive not seen discussed here before. The SM settings on these units are based on the settings of the inputs before them. The video chain is kind of a pyramid that essentially builds from the lowest quality inputs at the bottom to the highest at the top. Youll notice the input menu actually follows this hierarchy, except for the DVI / PC options. Changes made to inputs further down the pyramid effect everything above them. Since all of the grayscale settings are based off of each other its impossible to copy somebodys settings for one input while leaving your others and expect the results to be accurate. To see the improvement of the settings your gamma and grayscale settings must match for every input.


Heres my spreadsheet, if you decide to try the settings please remember to record your defaults. Ill attach the histograms for each input in the posts below.

 

hln467w2.zip 8.6806640625k . file
 

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this is not for you tmila. You are banned from the service menu as you have changed proc_set and autocolor
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by tmila
You went back to 222 for the delay, huh?
Yeah, but I'll save that discussion for another day.......for now it appears that 222 is indeed the correct setting.
 

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ST,


Your gamma curve looks really flat at the bottom end. What does your shadow detail look like?


I ask because mine is not too good, but it measures better.


Ken
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Shadow detail is fair, it's certaibly better than it was OOTB but it doesn't compare to my direct view HDCRT. The DLP is gorgeous on daylight and other bright scenes but it could certainly do shadows better. I can change the slope of the gamma curve by raising the contrast but then it crushes whites. Any idea how to make it come out of black more quickly without sacrificing something else in the process?


HD and DVD materials look good in darker scenes, where I see a problem with shadow detail is with SD signals. I'll be watching a primtime show on DirecTV that just looks too dark, I begin to think that I need to tweak the user settings a little but then the next scene or next show that comes on looks great.


How about we pick a scene from a specific DVD to compare some screenshots between sets?


PS - Ken, you said you had a lot of trouble getting gamma 2 to level out, I wonder what the difference is? What do your gamma curves look like?
 

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Supertoyz, thanks for the work and posting the results.


I tried all the tweaks :) on my 437HLM (302) and I have to say that certain things look *way* better than I'd previously had - and yet others booked very odd. Which is odd really - I'd have thought if changes on one input looked good then they all would (as it would seem that the TV is "similarly" configured)


Comp1P - amazing! So much better - used the cumberbund scene in AOTC and it now looks brown! Wow.

Comp1I - just looks wrong. Is there in error in your spreadsheet? The gains are all the same as Comp1P

DVI - HD material still looks good, SD material looks kind of dark, maybe worse than before.

S-video - better than what I had before, maybe lacking in shadow detail but has more punch than before and isn't washed out (which was a problem I had).


Puzzling.


Jonathan
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by jotter
Supertoyz, thanks for the work and posting the results.


I tried all the tweaks :) on my 437HLM (302) and I have to say that certain things look *way* better than I'd previously had - and yet others booked very odd. Which is odd really - I'd have thought if changes on one input looked good then they all would (as it would seem that the TV is "similarly" configured)


Comp1P - amazing! So much better - used the cumberbund scene in AOTC and it now looks brown! Wow.

Comp1I - just looks wrong. Is there in error in your spreadsheet? The gains are all the same as Comp1P

DVI - HD material still looks good, SD material looks kind of dark, maybe worse than before.

S-video - better than what I had before, maybe lacking in shadow detail but has more punch than before and isn't washed out (which was a problem I had).


Puzzling.


Jonathan
I'm not the least bit surprised by any of your comments since I feel pretty much the same way. The only thoughts I would have are what input devices are you using? Second did you use Avia or VE to tweak the UM to your own taste and opinion? As far as PQ is concerned I agree with you.......Comp1P looks fantastic however I think Comp1i looks even better on mine, the gamma results are a little better and the grayscale is just as flat. I'm using a Sony DVP-NS900V as my source for these two inputs. I have no way to input a source into S-Video, component or Coax so I simply let the settings from C1i carry over. Nothing attached to C2 or C3 either so those have been ignored. The PC input I used both a laptop and desktop to calibrate and the results were almost identical between the two video cards. As I stated in my post above I think the image is dark on some SD material as well but then the next scene or show is very bright. It seems that good material looks very good, poor material looks dark. Anybody see The Two Towers in HD yet? It looked really nice. For the DVI input I used the DVD-HD931 and Avia as the source.......Since this is the only input that I really had trouble with I wonder if it has anything to do with the DVD player characteristics? Maybe I'll try hooking up the desktop to DVI for confirmation (major PITA). Also my Sony DVD player has numerous settings for Gamma, saturation, tint, etc. that could influence the results, it would be accurate for my setup but it means one more variable for anybody else, they were all set to defaults but who knows where that leaves you.......now I gotta find a signal generator :rolleyes:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Supertoyz
I'm not the least bit surprised by any of your comments since I feel pretty much the same way. The only thoughts I would have are what input devices are you using? Second did you use Avia or VE to tweak the UM to your own taste and opinion? As far as PQ is concerned I agree with you.......Comp1P looks fantastic however I think Comp1i looks even better on mine, the gamma results are a little better and the grayscale is just as flat. I'm using a Sony DVP-NS900V as my source for these two inputs. I have no way to input a source into S-Video, component or Coax so I simply let the settings from C1i carry over. Nothing attached to C2 or C3 either so those have been ignored. The PC input I used both a laptop and desktop to calibrate and the results were almost identical between the two video cards. As I stated in my post above I think the image is dark on some SD material as well but then the next scene or show is very bright. It seems that good material looks very good, poor material looks dark. Anybody see The Two Towers in HD yet? It looked really nice. For the DVI input I used the DVD-HD931 and Avia as the source.......Since this is the only input that I really had trouble with I wonder if it has anything to do with the DVD player characteristics? Maybe I'll try hooking up the desktop to DVI for confirmation (major PITA). Also my Sony DVD player has numerous settings for Gamma, saturation, tint, etc. that could influence the results, it would be accurate for my setup but it means one more variable for anybody else, they were all set to defaults but who knows where that leaves you.......now I gotta find a signal generator :rolleyes:
LOL. I actually just took the UM settings you had in the spread sheet (all the same :)) as I really have a hard time using Avia to set them (I didnt get any replies on what avia test patterns really work well thread I started last week).


For the record my sources are:

Comp1P & I -> Panasonic DVD XP-30. Didnt tweak any of the numerous settings on saturation gamma etc settings.

S-video -> replayTV 4000 over a hughes directv box

DVI -> SIRT T160 OTA/Directv SD/OTA HD/Directv HD

PC -> PC with ATI Raedon 7500LE


I guess I need to look into the S-video/CompI tweaks mostly since they really don't look right to me at the moment. I suspect I may have some other older tweaks in there too in some of the other chipset menus so I need to reset those back (starts hunting around for digital camera...).


I'd be really interested if you try the PC over DVI supertoyz. Is it really that much of a PITA? Thinking back to last night when I was watching SD through the DVI connection I think it looked slightly worse than previous tweaks - and as I said before - it seems odd that the progressive input tweaks would yield such good results and the others less so (maybe just luck with how my DVD player+TV and yours+TV combine similarly).


Anyway, thanks again for the work!


Hmmm.

Jonathan
 

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Hi Supertoyz,


I just received my HLN467 yesterday after a 6 week wait. I also got the Samsung HD931. So I'm ofcourse interested in your results. I probably won't venture into the service menu until I get 100 hours on the lamp (really necessary?), so I don't know my firmware version yet. However, I do have some questions about your graphs, if that is OK:


Q1: You seem to be shooting for a gamma around 2.5. Why? What does the number mean?


Q2: What are you trying to achieve with the top gamma curves (the yellow one)? Are you trying to fit it to the dotted line curve? What does it mean?


Q3: What are you trying to achieve with the bottom gamma curves (red, green, and blue ones)? Are you trying to make them maximally flat across the x axis? What does that translate to for PQ?


Q4: I sometimes see "color banding" (not talking about rainbows) on some source material. Even DVDs. It reminds me of looking at a digital photo on a PC when the color depth is set too low. I think some people refer to this as "clay faces". Which of your tweaks, if any, would improve this?


I understand if you don't have time to answer a bunch of technical questions. If you or anyone else has a link to where I can learn about these things like gamma I would be very thankful. :)


In general, the color banding I sometimes see makes me wonder if DLP sets cannot resolve as many hues as other HDTV technologies. Hopefully this is not the case and it can be improved through tweaking. I've been all over TI's DLP site, but if anyone can point me to information of how many colors a single chip DLP/color wheel can display I would be very interested.


Overall I'm pleased so far with the set. It is my first HDTV. Reading this forum set my expectations very accurately. SDTV is... eh, OK to ugly. HDTV can look stunning depending on source materal. DVD through DVI is great. I watched Shrek last night and was WOWed. I'm really looking forward to Monday Night Football!


For the curious, my set up is:


DVI: HD931 DVD player.

Comp3: 3100HD (Time Warner Cable set top box).

Comp1: HD931 DVD player (for 4:3 aspect DVDs).


Thanks,


Sooke
 
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