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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sort of OT, but still noteworthy i thought. (BTW - Mods: if this is not the correct forum, please (re)move it.)

http://cbs2.com/finance/CA--Camcorde...rces_news_html


This is interesting from a technological point of view: They mention very advanced devices, like a fountain pen sized device that can capture an entire movie, or PocketPC attachments. Anybody know anything more about this? I'm just curious if that kind of technology exists, and what kind of quality such devices are capable of. They make it sound like they "do" the same quality as a good large-brick-sized prosumer-level camcorder. I'm thinking that if that kind of technology is available, why can't i buy that at Best Buy yet?? ;)


And of course the other part of the discussion: How many ticket sales do they think they actually lost because of crappy camcorder bootlegs anyway?? Anyone else think that the 3 billion dollar is unsubstantiated? I think i read somewhere that the methodology they use is something along the lines of them estimating the number of illegal copies out there (both on the street and on the internet) and then make the giant leap of logic that all those copies would otherwise have resulted in ticket sales. I kinda believe that, because i don't see how else they'd come up with a number of $3 billion... And then that "The research is funded by a $2 million grant from the Advanced Technology Program of the National Institute of Standards and Technology, a government agency." I'm glad that our tax dollars are spent that way :rolleyes:
 

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I can't believe these crappy bootlegged cam-corded shotty sounding files cost the film industry more than $10 in ticket and DVD sales. Who would actually watch one?
 

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A buddy of mine had a copy of Phantom Menace way back when at the time it was in theaters. It was recorded in this style, though as far as I could tell, with a normal camcorder. If you looked closeley (the contrast was awwwful) you could see the heads of some asian dudes whispering to eachother and at one point getting up to leave the theater and coming back. It was pretty funny. It looked like absolute crap. The sound was poor and it had some form of asian subtitling. Now I saw this bootleg (bet the MPAA hitsqad is on its way) and had NO, NONE, ZERO intention of seeing it in the theater whether I saw the bootleg or hadn't. I did however BUY the DVD when it was released though honestly it had nothing to do with seeing it first. I couldn't imagine having a video library of these awful things! It was horrible on just a 32" crummy CRT!!

-Trouble
 

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Yeah, I prefer to wait until the DVD is out...or the screener hits Kazaa... ;)
 

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However, if you read any of the DRM threads, you will find many anti-DRM people who argue that this is hugely common around the world and because it is so common that any attempts at DRM are a waste because this style of pirating will always be possible. This line of argument was used many times in the long DRM threads that were previously had.


NOTE: I no longer get into arguments on this subject, I'm just pointing out what has previously been argued.
 

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Reminds me of the early 90's, when guys who had been in Lebanon (Norway had peacekeeping units there) came home with loads of Elsa video tapes, pirated with lousy quality. When I look at any of those now I can't understand that I was able to watch a full movie of that quality! Or maybe I'm just becoming to particular.


As for the PPC they're talking about I think they have been watching a Star Trek movie and mistaken a tricorder for a PPC or perhaps they have been watching too many James Bond movies. It sounds like sci-fi to me, at least the next 3-4 years. Heck, you need a huge storage unit to store 122 minutes of film that's watchable on any screen larger than a postage stamp since these units of course lack the power to compress in software, and even a heavily compressed DiVX movie of that length will fill up a CD. Look at what regular digital still cameras call video recording, it's barely watchable on the LCD screen on the back of the camera!
 

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If they can do it without ruining the picture or giving us all headaches or seizures then I am all for this particular approach. That is because it only seems to work in digital theaters. So this will accelerate the transition to digital, whether or not it actually accomplishes anything else useful.


However I am one of those folks that is sometimes made nauseous by strobe lights so I may not be able to enjoy those new digital theaters if they do it wrong.


- Tom (not missing disco at all)


edit: If they worry so much about this however I think they must go absolutely berserk worrying about the same folks with 720p camcorders pointed at LCD screens (which don't blink) showing PPV or HD-DVD of first run movies, in private homes with no metal detectors or guards. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
As for the PPC they're talking about ... Heck, you need a huge storage unit to store 122 minutes of film that's watchable on any screen larger than a postage stamp since these units of course lack the power to compress in software, and even a heavily compressed DiVX movie of that length will fill up a CD.
Exactly! That's why i'm very curious about the technology that they claim is being used. Are they claiming that there's a device out there that's as small as let's say a PocketPC (or better yet a foutain pen!) that can record a decent quality capture of a full feature length movie in real-time AND store it? Such a device would lack the horsepower to compress the video much and would need a ton of storage space, like a min-DV tape like digital camcorders use nowadays.


Anybody who has played with capturing their home video to their PC to create a VCD, DVD or just DivX or reasonably sized MPEG / AVI file knows that even a muscular P4 at 2.5GHz or more with some very big and fast hard drives still has a hard time doing this anywhere near real-time.


The only thing that i can think of is some sort of camcorder that is rigged to have the CCD element piece with the lens and all(???) seperate on some sort of extension cable so that you can have the camcorder in your bag while you have the lens & stuff in your hand...?


I think they're slightly exaggerating things... (/obvious)
 

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I have a Sony PDA (NX70V) which has a built-in video camera, and can store up to 2 hours of video and audio on a 128 MB memory stick. The lens is tiny, so I could put it in my shirt pocket and record without anyone noticing it, if I wanted to. The video is rather grainy however.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by trbarry
If they can do it without ruining the picture or giving us all headaches or seizures then I am all for this particular approach. That is because it only seems to work in digital theaters. So this will accelerate the transition to digital, whether or not it actually accomplishes anything else useful.
An Interesting perpective Tom. For me, the 'digital revolution' in Theaters can't come slowly enough. My local Theater runs some digital, and to be quite honest it's absolutely awful. Others have posted similar results on this forum.


Add to that another piece of digital wizardry and I'm sure things will be even worse - I just don't believe that no degradation in the image will take place as a result of messing with it.


Andy.
 

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These people would claim their momma was a virgin if they thought it would get them more money. I'm sure there is a grain of truth in there somewhere, but not enough to make even one slice of bread...
 

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Quote:
Anybody who has played with capturing their home video to their PC to create a VCD, DVD or just DivX or reasonably sized MPEG / AVI file knows that even a muscular P4 at 2.5GHz or more with some very big and fast hard drives still has a hard time doing this anywhere near real-time.
After seeing the above post I did a few experiments last night. I actually found that with progressive video at a 704x480 I can get excellent results with Xvid at 3 mbps, encoding at up to 21-23 FPS. This can be done by doing only a low motion search and by not using any special filters or other optional processing. This bit rate was more than needed and gave results at least as good as DVD since I was using a downsampled HDTV source.


This was on 2.4 Ghz P4. So likely a machine only slightly faster could do it in real time. And note that I was reading a HuffYUV file off of disk and decompressing it, extra overhead that would not exist if being fed raw data from a camera.


- Tom
 

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So a fast notebook with some kind of "lens/CCD only" camera attached to it, then? :cool:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by GregW
I have a Sony PDA (NX70V) which has a built-in video camera, and can store up to 2 hours of video and audio on a 128 MB memory stick. The lens is tiny, so I could put it in my shirt pocket and record without anyone noticing it, if I wanted to. The video is rather grainy however.
Wait a minuite. over 2hrs of video and audio on 128MB?


What resolution is that at? I'm having trouble understanding how that's possible with any of the compression schemes I am aware of, unless it's at an insanely low resolution. In which case, what would you watch it on?
 

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Like I said, nothing excists that can record anything via a PDA that is watchable on anything larger than a postage stamp... That Sony's in that cathegory for sure. Remember that these recordings have to be possible to watch (usually by ignorants, but still...) on a regular TV. PDA recordings are not. :cool:
 

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Wait, it gets worse. Guess who is behind this idea of electronic countermeasures against camcorders? This is what is on the www.cinea.com homepage:

Quote:
Founded by the same world class engineering team that developed and operated the Divxâ„¢ encrypted DVD platform
So, at least they have experience with futility.
 

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I think we need to stage a secret protest by finding out which movie has the first version of this 'copy protection blinking' in the theater. Then, get 30 people to run violently out of the theater after the first 5 minutes and barf all over the main lobby floor, while another 20 convulses in theater seats. Problem solved. :)
 
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