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Home Theater 1080P projector shootout - RS-1 "downright loud"

18370 Views 141 Replies 58 Participants Last post by Sankar, Jul 12, 2007

Kevin McCarthy

Discussion Starter · May 12, 2007

On Thursday I received my RS-1 (bailed on the AVS buy and located one at a great price in the mid-west), along with this months copy of Home Theater magazine. It has a 1080P projector shootout between the RS-1, Mits HC5000U, and the Sony Pearl. It's a good review, and high marks are given to the RS-1 on image quality, but the reviewer found it loud, and preferred the Pearl for a living room home theater. Two brief quotes:

"The JVC is downright loud, easily overpowering the other projectors and disc players with its noise".

"With high quality sources, the JVC renders a beautiful image, but it is also the biggest, loudest, most expensive projector, and it spills light around the screen. The Sony is the quietest, most versatile projector, which would make it a better choice for a living room home theater setup like mine".

I bought it sight and sound unseen; while both my wife and I are fussy about extraneous noise, the multiple postings along the line of "I sit a few feet from it and can barely hear it with the sound off" convinced me that it would be fine. Unfortunate timing on the HT review. I'm not sure how to account for the disparity in reactions; perhaps there are unit to unit variations, maybe its personal thresholds of acceptance, or possibly the room can be a factor - other than the carpet, we have sheet rock walls and ceiling.

I love the image - its super detailed and punchy (100" HiPower, near max throw, low lamp). I see hand puppets, but the blacks are very good. This our first projector, so we don't have anything to compare it to. It will take a few days to sort out the noise. We are far from being audiophile purists, but if any home theater sound system added a tenth of this level of background noise (granted, only audible in quiet passages), it would be obviously unacceptable. I may bail for the Pearl.

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1 - 20 of 142 Posts

kthacher

· #2 · May 12, 2007

Did you find the noise to be a problem with your unit before you read the review?

Kevin McCarthy

Discussion Starter · #3 · May 12, 2007

Yup. Fired it up about an hour before what I read matched my reaction. At first, I hoped it had defaulted in high lamp, but no luck there.

FWIW, we mute commercials, and I find co-workers obsessively clicking and tapping pens during meetings an irritant worth mentioning.

rboster

· #4 · May 12, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by kthacher /forum/post/0

Did you find the noise to be a problem with your unit before you read the review?

I think the review came out the same time he rec'd his unit...at least that is my understanding from a post in one of the other JVC threads.

IndifferentBozo

· #5 · May 12, 2007

That's the first time I've heard of anyone giving the pearl the nod over the Mitsubishi for noise. Most things I've seen say the Mits is the quietest projector around.

Mark Petersen

· #6 · May 12, 2007

Are you using the high altitude setting? I was surprised at how noisy the RS-1 can get with HA + high bulb settings both enabled. With HA disabled and normal bulb settings though the RS-1 is usually very quiet. I had a chance to inspect a 2nd batch RS-1 a few weeks ago and found it noticeably quieter than my 1st batch RS-1 so I think there is some unit to unit variation.

DomNY

· #7 · May 12, 2007

Kevin,

I was in the 2nd batch. I had a Sony 10HT before the RS1. The Sony was advertised at 30db at normal bulb setting. My RS1 is much quieter. It is mounted directly overhead, 13" down from an 8' ceiling (same spot as the Sony). Unless there is dead silence in the movie, I do not hear it; nor do my guests. I am sure this is a unit by unit difference. FWIW - I find the RS1 is a little louder when first turned on. I find that after a minute or so, it quiets down a lot - to the levels described.

Regards,

Dom

millerwill

· #8 · May 13, 2007

My RS1 is no more than 2 ft from wife and my heads, and I never hear it except when it starts up before any pic is on the screen. Listen to the Optoma HD81 is you want to hear LOUD. And as Mark said, everything I've read says that the Mits is the quietest.

scottyb

· #9 · May 13, 2007

2

Quote:
and my heads

How many do you have??

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Wendell R. Breland

· #10 · May 13, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb /forum/post/0

How many do you have??

If he is normal, just two

.

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glenned

· #11 · May 13, 2007

My RS1 measures 47-49 dB at 12 inches in normal (low bulb power) bulb mode, which is less than the vast majority of PJs out there. However, the quality of the sound does seem to have a small component of mechanical noise (vs just the woosh of air) which makes it seem louder than my meter would indicate.

That being said, it is quieter than most of the PJs I have seen over the years. If you want something totally silent, you have very few options, and they will all involve other compromises compared to the RS1.

In all PJs, they can vary from one unit to the next. It sounds as if the review unit quoted in the first post may have been louder than is typical, but who knows?

Glenn

tjgar

· #12 · May 13, 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerwill /forum/post/0

My RS1 is no more than 2 ft from wife and my heads, and I never hear it except when it starts up before any pic is on the screen. Listen to the Optoma HD81 is you want to hear LOUD. And as Mark said, everything I've read says that the Mits is the quietest.

I agree, I went from a HD81 to the RS-1 and the sound difference is night and day.

When I first would start the 81 I could hear it was "on" from about anywhere in the room.

Now even if I am close to the RS1 I have to look at the indicator light to make sure its "on" in the warm-up stage when there is no light coming out of the lens.

Being a DLP user for the last 4 years, I am totally happy with the sound level.

Obviously this projector reviewed must defective.

Tony

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Mark Lem

· #13 · May 13, 2007

Mine sits 6 feet behind us on a rear shelf> I have been watching just video for two days.(sound system not hooked up yet but had to check out the picture). I do not find the fan distracting at all, as a matter of fact I was pleasantly surprised as to how quiet it is (normal mode) .

reincarnate

· #14 · May 13, 2007

The SOTA $20K Marantz DLP is big and noisy too. I guess I'm not going to buy it now either. Thanks!

We are really discussing is a lady reviewers opinion (if remember reading it correctly at the bookstore).

Was this same miss who also recommended the film Eragon. Based upon her strong recommendation I bought a copy.

The story revolves around sweet, cutesy very feminine dragon.

(The situation is getting desperate when you combine this type of fluff with Ms. Stacey Spears banal column in Widescreen Review).

It's important to match the furnishing size to the room size. For a small room don't purchase large overstuffed sofas, chairs, large speakers or large subwoofers. Or even front projectors at all. Get a flat panel instead. (Boys and their balanced practical logic).

My crystal ball says the projector did not match her small expensive east coast room/apartment. In the future I plan to stick to the boy's opinion at Home Theater Magazine.

Of far more interest was the male reviewers comment as to why the JVC image is so addicting, especially when watching House. One addict watching another, I guess!

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Kevin McCarthy

Discussion Starter · #15 · May 13, 2007

If you actually read the latest Home Theater issue, you will see that the side box with the "downright loud, easily overpowering the other projectors and disc players with its fan noise" comment was written by John Higgins. The lead author was Geoffrey Morrison, and Adrienne Maxwell also contributed (adding her own side box that found the RS-1 loud and not the best choice for a living room home theater). We should skip the gender and/or owner blame game and focus on what is actually going on here.

The comments from millerwill, DomNY, and especially the following from tjgar:

"even if I am close to the RS1 I have to look at the indicator light to make sure its "on" in the warm-up stage when there is no light coming out of the lens".

make it abundantly clear to me that this is NOT an issue of personal irritatability thresholds; it is CLEARLY unit to unit variation.

Sound requires motion. To the best of my knowledge, there are only two active moving parts in the RS-1 - the main fan and the optics block fan. The airflow requirements of the main (lamp cooler) fan have to be many times higher than than those of the optics block, so that is where I would start.

Looking at the Cine4home RS-1 review:
http://www.cine4home.com/reviews/pro...D1/HD1Test.htm

the main fan is clearly visible as a Nidec Beta SL. Not sure if it is a 90 or 120 mm. I googled the model, and found the 90 mm going for a whopping $1.88 in 40 piece quantity:
http://www.evertek.com/viewpart.asp?auto=25068

Hardly a premium fan.

I also found reports from people trying to silence computer cases, who generally regard the Nidec Beta SL as an offender to be swapped out for something quieter:
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/6/ub...85&m=178099784

On the Nidec Japanese web site, I found data sheets for the 90 mm:
http://episteme.arstechnica.com/6/ub...85&m=178099784

but I would need to get the specific part number off the RS-1 fan to be sure.

As an aside, the RS-1 dissipates 280 watts. At room temperature and pressure, 0.83 liters per second of airflow are required per watt of power for a delta T between inlet and outlet air of 1 degree C. The RS-1 would require 16 lps (30 cfm) to acheive a delta T rise of 15 C (27 F), but I have yet to measure the outlet air temp.

I am heavily involved with the diagnosis and elimination of vibration and resonances in my work life. I presented a paper at my alma mater (MIT) a couple of years ago on an air bearing, constant velocity scanning stage with a resolution of 31 picometers. We balance air bearing spindles to 0.001 gm-cm.

I know about vibration.

When I examine the RS-1, I notice that the noise is NOT the airflow itself, but rather a distinct droning case vibration that is easily felt by hand and is most pronounced directly above the main fan. I think I will put a low noise piezo accelerometer on the case and look at the output on a spectrum analyser - I expect I will see a driving frequency at the fan rotation speed, together with a forest of plastic case modal resonances. A look at the Cine4home review photo shows four blocks of white foam that are intended to vibration isolate and mount the fan, and which appear to bear against the outer case. I think that the unit to unit noise variation is either due to a badly balanced, cheap Nidec fan, or differing quality of vibration isolation of the fan. If one part (the wire mesh, say) provides a direct path from the fan body to the case, the isolation of the white blocks is substantially compromised.

I will measure things, and ask JVC Pro if they would consider taking a look at this (I would even pay). I don't want to personally intervene, swap fan, etc, because that would void my warranty. Given the Home Theater review, JVC may lose sales over this, so some attention to this issue would seem in order. Certainly, there is NO WAY Home Theater's comments (or my observations) can be squared with:

"even if I am close to the RS1 I have to look at the indicator light to make sure its "on" in the warm-up stage when there is no light coming out of the lens".

What the above observation says is that the RS-1 CAN BE (and probably usually is) an extremely quiet unit. Quality control is all about understanding the root causes of variation and driving them down in a reproducible manner. I'll bet they can do this.

Kevin

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rlindo

· #16 · May 13, 2007

My RS-1 isn't loud and it sits around 2 feet above my head. My Toshiba HD-A1 that is hmm, 7 feet away from me is louder than the RS1.

I'm pretty aware when it comes to this stuff so it isn't like I just have some great tolerance for fan noise and can block it out. I would agree that it must be a unit to unit variance and that is why yours and that one in the review were found to be noisy.

Bob Sorel

· #17 · May 13, 2007

Quote:
The SOTA $20K Marantz DLP is big and noisy too. I guess I'm not going to buy it now either. Thanks!

Ah, good idea...Dismiss yet another projector without ever hearing or seeing it. Let's be honest here...You are never going to actually BUY any front projector, are you?

Quote:
We are really discussing is a lady reviewers opinion (if remember reading it correctly at the bookstore).

The 2 quotes in the first post were from 2 different "auxiliary" reviewers. The first quote was by John Higgins while the second one was from Adrienne Maxwell.

Quote:
My crystal ball says the projector did not match her small expensive east coast room/apartment.

Incredible insight!

I'm sure that the "versatile projector (Sony) with ample adjustments to fine-tune the picture to your taste" and that the JVC is the "loudest, most expensive projector, and it spills light around the screen" had absolutely nothing to do with her decision. As you continue to insult anyone who disagrees with your assessment, she must have judged the projectors based on how it looked inside of her small east coast apartment, right? Oh, and I guess you have some inside information here as to where she lives and whether it is a home, condo, or apartment, heh?

Quote:
Of far more interest was the male reviewers comment as to why the JVC image is so addicting, especially when watching House.

Of course it was! As long as the person agrees with YOU, then he is perceptive, insightful, and "interesting." Why don't you just take the plunge and actually BUY a front projector and spend time with it rather than living vicariously from those who have?

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Kevin McCarthy

Discussion Starter · #18 · May 13, 2007

rlindo: I have the RS-1 next to an HD-A2, and the RS-1 seems to be about 3X louder (entirely subjective, and I am aware perception is logarithmic). Another case for unit to unit variation (aka quality issues).

jasonDono

· #19 · May 13, 2007

Our RS1 sits three feet above and right behind our heads. Can't hear it. I need to get within about a foot before I can hear it at all. I'm pretty sensitive to projector noise, even purchased a whisperflow for my 7205. Another vote for unit to unit variation.

Rutgar

· #20 · May 13, 2007

I guess I don't get the issue with the noise of the RS1. The average volume of a movie more than drowns out any noise that it makes in my room. Of course, I do have unit at the back of the room, and it's in front of a large bank of RPG Diffractals (see pictures in my HT link). Although, I don't know if the Diffractals would help with it's noise or not.

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