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Audioguy - what are your room dimensions? Back when you didn't have the thumpiness, how many and which subwoofers did you have, and where were they placed? Now with your current thumpiness of music, you have how many F18s (8?) and is their room placement the same as before?

As previoulsy noted, other subs were Seaton SubMersives. Room dimensions are 19'3" wide, 22' long, 8' high. 2 SubMersives were located in left rear corner, 1 under each end of the screen. Current configuration is 3 Seaton F18's in left rear corner and 2 F18's in each of the two front corners.


I wonder if this thumpiness is a particular low bass frequency being accentuated that is thumping something in your theater?
If that were the case, then the SubMersives also would have had the thumpiness, and they most certainly did not.

How would you describe the pros and cons of your current F18 subwoofers vs your prior subwoofers?
The easily heard "pros" of the SubMersives was that the mid-upper bass I found much more articulate and cleaner. And the "thumpiness" did not exist. There were no "cons". But we are not comparing Apples to Apples. I had 4 Seaton SubMersives and have 8 F18s (though only using 7 at the moment as I test the rear left corner position.) I would be more than perfectly satisfied with the F18's if I can find the cause of and eliminate this thumpiness. Again, as I previously noted, I can't say for sure that it is the sub but once I visit the room in Atlanta, I will be able to determine if it is my room or the subs.

I attend lots of concerts with a fair amount of unamplified music as well - so I want to be sure I don't have thumpiness to my bass!
I am sure you will make the right decision. Again, I think you are probably safe with the F18 since I have not heard this complaint from anyone else. Part of my drive to determine if it is the sub or the room is if it is the sub, I will sell them and most likely purchase the new Funk 18' sub. If it is not the sub, then I will continue to experiment and see if I can eliminate it via Trinnov settings, PEQs and modified target curves.
 

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As my cinema is not large, due to their small size I have two stacks of three REL 1508s for LFE, and KEF Reference subs working with each of the front three speakers. I find this a fine compromise for music and movies.

I have no space restrictions for my stereo, and have two line arrays of 3 @ REL 25s; these help to make the listening experience beyond special. Every album played is an event.
 

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Discussion Starter #123
These are different form factor variations on our F18 with the same acoustic performance which will be available through dealers. We installed 2 of the same DS18-20 modules at the rear of Art's room 2 years ago. These will go on the website in the future with a handful of other application specific designs including some shallow 8", 6", and 4" deep options with the same deep extension, and we'll even have a slightly bigger model with a sealed 21" woofer. These are part of our Design Series, where the DS18-12 (12" deep box), and DS18-20 (20" square face) are shown below. The DS18-20 can have the option of internal amplification, but the vast majority to be powered from our rack mounted amplifiers, especially when concealed behind a screen or stretched fabric.



Mark, as you and I discussed, my installer is finalizing speaker placement (9.X.13 speaker layout), and what I like about your subwoofers in particular is custom sizing. My theater as remodeled is 18.25' W x 23.25' L x 11'11" H. My aisles will be about 3' on each side. As you and I discussed, plenty of room at the front screen wall below the screen for subwoofers at the front of my theater (screen starts a bit above the front left, right and center Aerial Acoustics 7t speakers which are about 47" tall). In terms of subs at the rear of the theatre, if they go in the rear corners there's only 14" on the left to the entry door, so if rear corners width would need to fit within this area - you mention the DS18-12 (12" deep box) so that may work. Or if we place the rear subs along the side walls out a bit from the rear corners then if the subs are no more than say 18" deep - less would be better - then this leaves at least about 1.5' of walkway. And as we discussed I will get your passive subwoofers with the amplifiers located at the rear of my theater hidden behind the new cabinetry going in with the other components and amplifiers.

Below I have listed from your website the dimensions of your 18" and 21" passive subwoofers currently on your website:

X21P1 – 21” woofer ported - 6” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 32.75″ H x 24″ W x 32.75″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

F18-Slave – 18” woofer sealed – 3” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 24.25″ H x 23.5″ W x 18″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

What are the dimension choices for the form factor variations on your F18 subwoofer?

Do you have any dimension choices for form factor variations on your X21P1 ported subwoofer, and if so, what are they?

What are the dimension choices for form factor variations on your new 21" sealed subwoofer?

Thanks. My installer is coming back tomorrow to start speaker wiring, etc and I am hoping to discuss all this with him and determine which and how many subwoofers I want to order.
 
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Mark, as you and I discussed, my installer is finalizing speaker placement (9.X.13 speaker layout), and what I like about your subwoofers in particular is custom sizing. My theater as remodeled is 18.25' W x 23.25' L x 11'11" H. My aisles will be about 3' on each side. As you and I discussed, plenty of room at the front screen wall below the screen for subwoofers at the front of my theater (screen starts a bit above the front left, right and center Aerial Acoustics 7t speakers which are about 47" tall). In terms of subs at the rear of the theatre, if they go in the rear corners there's only 14" on the left to the entry door, so if rear corners width would need to fit within this area - you mention the DS18-12 (12" deep box) so that may work. Or if we place the rear subs along the side walls out a bit from the rear corners then if the subs are no more than say 18" deep - less would be better - then this leaves at least about 1.5' of walkway. And as we discussed I will get your passive subwoofers with the amplifiers located at the rear of my theater hidden behind the new cabinetry going in with the other components and amplifiers.

Below I have listed from your website the dimensions of your 18" and 21" passive subwoofers currently on your website:

X21P1 – 21” woofer ported - 6” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 32.75″ H x 24″ W x 32.75″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

F18-Slave – 18” woofer sealed – 3” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 24.25″ H x 23.5″ W x 18″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

What are the dimension choices for the form factor variations on your F18 subwoofer?

Do you have any dimension choices for form factor variations on your X21P1 ported subwoofer, and if so, what are they?

What are the dimension choices for form factor variations on your new 21" sealed subwoofer?

Thanks. My installer is coming back tomorrow to start speaker wiring, etc and I am hoping to discuss all this with him and determine which and how many subwoofers I want to order.
I think he sells those only through dealers and designers. I tried calling Mark today but his voicemail was full and could not leave a message. He also makes 8in deep twin 12’s. I am trying to understand the pros and cons of each size...
 

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Discussion Starter #125 (Edited)
Mark, as you and I discussed, my installer is finalizing speaker placement (9.X.13 speaker layout), and what I like about your subwoofers in particular is custom sizing. My theater as remodeled is 18.25' W x 23.25' L x 11'11" H. My aisles will be about 3' on each side. As you and I discussed, plenty of room at the front screen wall below the screen for subwoofers at the front of my theater (screen starts a bit above the front left, right and center Aerial Acoustics 7t speakers which are about 47" tall). In terms of subs at the rear of the theatre, if they go in the rear corners there's only 14" on the left to the entry door, so if rear corners width would need to fit within this area - you mention the DS18-12 (12" deep box) so that may work. Or if we place the rear subs along the side walls out a bit from the rear corners then if the subs are no more than say 18" deep - less would be better - then this leaves at least about 1.5' of walkway. And as we discussed I will get your passive subwoofers with the amplifiers located at the rear of my theater hidden behind the new cabinetry going in with the other components and amplifiers.

Below I have listed from your website the dimensions of your 18" and 21" passive subwoofers currently on your website:

X21P1 – 21” woofer ported - 6” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 32.75″ H x 24″ W x 32.75″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

F18-Slave – 18” woofer sealed – 3” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 24.25″ H x 23.5″ W x 18″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

What are the dimension choices for the form factor variations on your F18 subwoofer?

Do you have any dimension choices for form factor variations on your X21P1 ported subwoofer, and if so, what are they?

What are the dimension choices for form factor variations on your new 21" sealed subwoofer?

Thanks. My installer is coming back tomorrow to start speaker wiring, etc and I am hoping to discuss all this with him and determine which and how many subwoofers I want to order.
I think he sells those only through dealers and designers. I tried calling Mark today but his voicemail was full and could not leave a message. He also makes 8in deep twin 12’s. I am trying to understand the pros and cons of each size...
Correct. Mark has models which he is selling only through dealers/designers/installers. My installer will be placing the order but I need to know the available choices particularly dimensions of the new designer models not listed on the website. Plus Mark has stated that he does intend to update his website to include the new designer models sold through dealers/designers/installers. Also, my installer is over now and we are finalizing all speaker locations - so then we can get with Mark to discuss subwoofer models, dimensions and placement and place our order.
 

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I have 10 F-18’s in my HT. 8 (2 stacks of 4) behind the screen and one on each side wall across from the MLP (with the ability to add an additional slave on each sidewall). I don’t feel its lacking.
Not to get off topic, but it isn't too often I see my last name pop up on the forums. And on top of that only a few hours South of me. With an impressive theater to boot. If you are open to showing off your theater some time, I would consider it a privilege to experience it.

Best Regards,
Chris LaSalle
 

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I think he sells those only through dealers and designers. I tried calling Mark today but his voicemail was full and could not leave a message. He also makes 8in deep twin 12’s. I am trying to understand the pros and cons of each size...
Hi Pablo,

Thanks for the heads up. The voice mail is now cleared after the blocked robo-calls unknowingly filled things up. This week e-mail would probably be easier to catch up with, or please leave a message.
 

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Amplifiers will be rack mount. 6-8 of 18" or 21"ers depending upon what Mark and my installer recommend after going over specifics and peculiarities of my theater and setup and practical placement options. I just want to get that deep bass that you feel. This is OVERKILL. Since Adam Pelz will be coming to calibrate once everything is all done, I want to have it all done so all Adam as to do is his magic and its all done! Trinnov Altitude 32 SSP will allow Adam to set different memories for movies as well as music so I can get the best of both worlds.


How many cubic feet is your theater space ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Is the new 21 using the new Eminence NSW?

Given he used an Eminence driver (I think) in the SubMersive, it would not surprise me.

Steve: If you put 8 21's in your room, I will be paying you a visit. While you are about 400 miles from Los Angeles, you may end up being tbe the proverbial final straw that sets off the ultimate San Andreas earthquake.

 

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Not to get off topic, but it isn't too often I see my last name pop up on the forums. And on top of that only a few hours South of me. With an impressive theater to boot. If you are open to showing off your theater some time, I would consider it a privilege to experience it.

Best Regards,
Chris LaSalle
I believe @ARROW-AV and @Alan Gouger (and Peter, he whose name shall not be mentioned) are setting up a visit/demo
 

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Discussion Starter #132
How many cubic feet is your theater space ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
My theater dimensions WERE 18' 3" W x 25' L x 11'11" H. With remodeling and new cabinetry at rear to hide component racks & disc storage, the new L is 23'4". Therefore 5,056 cubic feet!
 

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Discussion Starter #133
Given he used an Eminence driver (I think) in the SubMersive, it would not surprise me.

Steve: If you put 8 21's in your room, I will be paying you a visit. While you are about 400 miles from Los Angeles, you may end up being tbe the proverbial final straw that sets off the ultimate San Andreas earthquake.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGon_kZAVtU
We can dream, can't we!

I have always been somewhat of an audiophile/tweaker home theater luver - with component racks on the left side, disc racks on the right side, and floorstanding speakers all around plus floorstanding subwoofers. My installer has persuaded me to get "clean" mostly by renovating the theater (built 1996-early 1997 as an addition onto my home) by taking out the existing cabinetry/wetbar at the back and building out the framing/wall/cabinetry (in progress) to "hide" component racks, disc storage, and the Sony VW5000 projector! Over the past few months that my theater has been down I have been gradually realizing and moving in a "cleaner" direction - e.g., do not use subwoofers at side walls which are so wide as to clog up and only leave a foot of walkway at the aisle!

Now I will still have 3 Aerial Acoustics 7t floorstanders at the very front of the theater. And I still have plenty of room up front for some subwoofers. But I'm waiting to get with Mark Seaton and find out if he has any designer 21"ers for the back side of my theater which won't jam me up on the aisle. So we will see if Jerry Lee Lewis rises from his grave and "There's a Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On!" Odds are I will end up with a combination of 18"ers and 21"ers!
 
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Discussion Starter #135
So what is the dominant reason for not "hiding" your speakers, specifically your LCRs?
Plenty of room in my theater for floorstanding speakers up front. I continue to believe the front soundstage is the most critical. Plus as I have 11'11" height, my screen is up higher above the 46"-47" high floorstanding Aerial Acoustics 7ts. Looks like front row will be 9.5' from screen, back row 14' from screen, so plenty of room up front for floorstanding speakers and some subwoofers.
 

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^^ if that demo is happening between Nov 11 and 15 I'd love to come by (with a nice bottle of red!) to experience the Alcons for the first time. Family trip to Siesta Key - just love the area, may become my retirement destination in 15-20yrs...I'd have to build a competing ht of course :D
 
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^^ if that demo is happening between Nov 11 and 15 I'd love to come by (with a nice bottle of red!) to experience the Alcons for the first time. Family trip to Siesta Key - just love the area, may become my retirement destination in 15-20yrs...I'd have to build a competing ht of course :D
"When The Levee Breaks" can be a regular on your playlist :(.
 

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I think he sells those only through dealers and designers. I tried calling Mark today but his voicemail was full and could not leave a message. He also makes 8in deep twin 12’s. I am trying to understand the pros and cons of each size...
Hi Pablo,

I wanted to quickly add that the primary compromise with the shallow depth subwoofer options I'm introducing is output vs cost. Unlike many alternates, they are capable of the similar in-room low frequency extension, but smaller modules have lower maximum output limitations, so more are needed to equal the output of the larger modules. The benefit is that we will have an option to create the same deep bass extension and output as multiple 18s while keeping to only 4, 6, or 8 inches of depth.
 

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Mark, as you and I discussed, my installer is finalizing speaker placement (9.X.13 speaker layout), and what I like about your subwoofers in particular is custom sizing. My theater as remodeled is 18.25' W x 23.25' L x 11'11" H. My aisles will be about 3' on each side. As you and I discussed, plenty of room at the front screen wall below the screen for subwoofers at the front of my theater (screen starts a bit above the front left, right and center Aerial Acoustics 7t speakers which are about 47" tall). In terms of subs at the rear of the theatre, if they go in the rear corners there's only 14" on the left to the entry door, so if rear corners width would need to fit within this area - you mention the DS18-12 (12" deep box) so that may work. Or if we place the rear subs along the side walls out a bit from the rear corners then if the subs are no more than say 18" deep - less would be better - then this leaves at least about 1.5' of walkway. And as we discussed I will get your passive subwoofers with the amplifiers located at the rear of my theater hidden behind the new cabinetry going in with the other components and amplifiers.

Below I have listed from your website the dimensions of your 18" and 21" passive subwoofers currently on your website:

X21P1 – 21” woofer ported - 6” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 32.75″ H x 24″ W x 32.75″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

F18-Slave – 18” woofer sealed – 3” Voice Coil – Passive
Dimensions 24.25″ H x 23.5″ W x 18″ D (including feet and magnetically attached grill)

What are the dimension choices for the form factor variations on your F18 subwoofer?

Do you have any dimension choices for form factor variations on your X21P1 ported subwoofer, and if so, what are they?

What are the dimension choices for form factor variations on your new 21" sealed subwoofer?

Thanks. My installer is coming back tomorrow to start speaker wiring, etc and I am hoping to discuss all this with him and determine which and how many subwoofers I want to order.
Hi Steve,

Please check your e-mail where I have some questions so we can nail down what will work out the best and decide if the new 21" modules or the 18" modules make the most sense.
 
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