[craig96]

Let me start off with describing my situation.


I purchase a Hitachi FS500 46" Rear projection HDTV primarily for DVD movie watching. I don't see much broadcast HDTV content therefor I simply continue with Standard broadcast (ie- non-HDTV) content. I have found that for TV watching (non-HDTV), that my other TV, a standard tube based screen, gives a sharper picture since there is no need to go into expansion mode to fill the 16:9 screen.


I still feel that even for movie watching alone, the Hitachi was a good purchase.


The problem is I only watch movies on the Hitachi, and leave TV watching for the small standard TV. The reason I consider this a problem, is because most DVDs exceed 16:9 aspect ratios and hence I still get black hozontal bars.


My manual mentions the risk of screen burn for "VERTICAL" bars occuring on 4:3 content on 16:9 screen. The manual never mentions any risk of horizontal bars from DVD movies. Interesting thing is that the vertical bars are GRAY wheraas the horizontal bars are Black. Is it that Gray bars pose more burning risk than black and that there is no problem with DVD movies and Horizontal black bars?


Should I limit my movie watching or do I have to use a zoom mode?


PS-- Why the heck aren't more DVD's in 16:9 aspect?? I thought that was the whole point behind widescreen TV-- no more black bars on movies. Still I have the stupid black bars?? Argh -- I miss the simple days of VHS and the old disclaimer, "This movie has been modied from its original version to fit your screen"

 

[foxfan]

Real widescreen movies are shot at a ratio of 2.35:1. the 16:9 format was designed to be a compromise between the old TV format (1.33:1) and the theatrical anamorphic widescreen format (2.35:1). There are many movies that are in 1.85:1, which is almost the same ratio as 16:9. If they would have made 2.35:1 TVs, there would have been a lot more wasted space on the sides in most occasions.


If the black bars really bother you, the best DVD player I've seen is the Panasonic, since it has a preset zoom for each aspect ratio, so that you can zoom a 2.35 movie to fit a 16:9 screen.

 

[taz291819]

And to answer another one of your questions, black bars can cause MORE burn-in than grey bars.

 

[craig96]

Foxfan wrote:
Quote:

Real widescreen movies are shot at a ratio of 2.35:1. the 16:9 format was designed to be a compromise between the old TV format (1.33:1)

That makes sense from a TV technology point of view. The point is that it's too bad the studios don't simply modify the DVD to fit the standard 16:9 ratio the way they used to do for VHS and the 4:3 aspect ratio.


Because basically everybody who watches a DVD is causing burnin damage to their expensive HDTV since the black bars are inevitable. Are TV manufacturer's exagurating the risk to cover their @$$ on the warranty?

I suppose if I use contrast and brightness at 100% there would be a risk, but how risky is it when I set contrast to 30% and brightness at 44%?

Quote:

If the black bars really bother you, the best DVD player I've seen is the Panasonic, since it has a preset zoom for each aspect ratio, so that you can zoom a 2.35 movie to fit a 16:9 screen

In fact I have the Panasonic S-35 and I do occasionally use that feature. However, zooming makes the image quality look bad. As far as black bars bothering me, they do not. The problem is that they bother the TV.


Actually, very few theatrical 'Block buster' type movies are processed in 1.85:1 . Most are in 2.3:1. This is why its very frusterating.

Quote:

black bars can cause MORE burn-in than grey bars.

Really? How much and how soon would the damage be appearent if all I watch are DVDs? You got me even more worried.

 

[taz291819]

Well, in my case, I had a 27" Direct view (4:3) that was primarily used for watching widescreen dvds. After about 4 years, if I had the tv on with the dvd player off (so it just showed a black screen), I could see the bars faintly. During normal viewing, I couldn't tell.


Just remember, keep your contrast down at least below the halfway mark.

 

[jfischer]

Quote:

Originally posted by craig96 The point is that it's too bad the studios don't simply modify the DVD to fit the standard 16:9 ratio the way they used to do for VHS and the 4:3 aspect ratio.

Without beating a dead horse too much, cropping a movie to fit a 16:9 screen is just as unacceptable as cropping it to fit a 4:3 screen. Many DVD players have a Zoom button that will allow you to crop the movie to fit a 16:9 screen (or get close anyway).


Although you don't lose as much of the movie when cropping a 2.35:1 movie to a 16x9 TV as you do on a 4x3, you're still cutting off a substantial portion of the movie by doing so.


There's also some good reading to be found HERE

 

[trbarry]

There seems not much interest but I still occasionally nag and lobby for STB's and DVD players to all support a collection of zoom options and dynamically colored bars such as I described Here , though talking then about how to display 4:3.


But the principles are the same and it should completely take care of any burn-in problems.


- Tom

 

[craig96]

trbarry,


Thanks for those threads, very interesting article you posted.


Zooming is not the answer since image quality is drastrically compromized. The best thing would be if DVD's could be sold in a 16:9 format as modified the same way you spoke of 4:3 material being modified for 16:9 content. I like your approach to using mixed methods of crop and nonparametric stretch etc.


It would not be so drastic to crop 2.35:1 to fit 16:9 screens. Studios could sell 3 versions: 4:3 (fullscreen), 16:9 (modified widescreen), and 2.35:1 (original ratio).


I bet if the studios started doing that, they would find that the 16:9 modified widescreen version DVD would outsell the unmodified 2.35:1 DVD version. I think most viewers prefer to have a modest cropping and no risk of burn and no black bars than 2.35:1.

 

[jfischer]

Quote:

Originally posted by craig96 Studios could sell 3 versions: 4:3 (fullscreen), 16:9 (modified widescreen), and 2.35:1 (original ratio).

So now the stores also have to stock 3 versions of each movie? It's bad enough with 2...

Quote:

I bet if the studios started doing that, they would find that the 16:9 modified widescreen version DVD would outsell the unmodified 2.35:1 DVD version.

I doubt it. Widescreen DVDs outsell their cropped 4x3 counterparts for the most part as it is (children's movies excluded).


If you properly calibrate your set, the risk of burn-in from watching letterboxed DVDs is pretty small.

 

[craig96]

jfischer,


I agree with you 100%-- 3 versions is too much confusion. I was trying to make the point that maybe only 2 versions are needed : 16:9 (modified) and 2.35:1- original. Probably FullScreen can be discontinued since 4:3 screens are being phased out.


I bet if a survey were done, we'd find that 16:9 modified, if they existed, would outsell the 2:35 version.


I agree with you about calibration to reduce burn in. Zooming is definately not a nice image quality on my DVD player and TV. At least we have the choice to zoom, which is good.

 

[jfischer]

Quote:

Originally posted by craig96 Probably FullScreen can be discontinued since 4:3 screens are being phased out.

Not for a while. Existing 4x3 TVs still outnumber 16x9 by a huge margin, and a lot of those 4x3 owners hate the black bars (not out of concern for the TV, but because it doesn't "use the whole screen").

Quote:

I bet if a survey were done, we'd find that 16:9 modified, if they existed, would outsell the 2:35 version.

I disagree. I think the demand for such a format would be minimal at best. Hence the lack of interest so far by any movie studios to put out such a format.


Feel free to start up a survey here though

 

[FredProgGH]

If they could just implement a form of on-the-fly pan-and-scan on DVDs (or the new HD format, whatever it is) then they could sell disks that would inherently cover all three aspect ratios with one transfer- no loss of PQ from multiple versions of a movie on one disk, no separate versions to worry about. AND THIS WOULD ALL GO AWAY.

 

[Kevin Korom]

If your RPTV is CRT-based, setting the contrast properly will minimize burn in problems with 2.35 AR material to the point where you shouldn't worry about it. I had a Pioneer Elite RPTV for 5 years before I went FP and never saw any signs of burn in. The real problem is overdriving the CRTs.


And if that model is LCD/DLP based, burn in isn't an issue at all.

 

[FredProgGH]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Korom If your RPTV is CRT-based, setting the contrast properly will minimize burn in problems with 2.35 AR material to the point where you shouldn't worry about it. I had a Pioneer Elite RPTV for 5 years before I went FP and never saw any signs of burn in. The real problem is overdriving the CRTs.

Right- most people that experince burn-in have their sets so bright you could read by them. And even then it's usually minor.

 

[Matt_Stevens]

 Look, my Panasonic HD set is now 3 to 4 years old. I have watched 60% black bar based material (mostly 2.35:1) and have zero burnin. If you properly set your contrast and brightness, or better yet, get your set ISF calibrated, you won't even have to think about burnin, or the insane practice of butchering films to fill the screen.

 

[Jaymstr]

OAR or die.

 

[mossym]

Quote:

Originally posted by jfischer I disagree. I think the demand for such a format would be minimal at best. Hence the lack of interest so far by any movie studios to put out such a format. Feel free to start up a survey here though

agreed, i have an RPTV, and i'd rather risk burn-in than watch a movie originally shot in 2.35:1 refitted to 16:9


I watch approx 10 dvd's a week, 90% of them are 2.35:1, and i have no burn-in at all...contrast is turned down, using an Avias disk, and i don't even worry about it anymore...

 

[JATWolf]

Sounds like you could have saved a lot of cash and just bought a 4:3 set.

Quote:

Originally posted by craig96 ...Argh -- I miss the simple days of VHS and the old disclaimer, "This movie has been modied from its original version to fit your screen"

 

[jessejames]

Just FYI, I have a 5 year old Mitsubishi 60" 4:3 projection TV that I watched many many movies on for most of those years. Most of those movies were 16x9 or wider aspect ratio. The manual warned against burn-in as well, but I have never had a problem with it. In fact, the picture still looks incredible to this day. I used the TV a lot though, for 4:3, 16x9, and 2.35:1


What I would suggest is to suplement your movie viewing with fullscreen and 4:3 (vertical bars) viewing to get a little of everything. As long as you arent watching only widescreen (2.35:1), or only 4:3:1 your screen will be fine. Now, if you played only 2.35:1 or 4:3 all day long, every day, then yes, the black bars would probably burn in.


I wouldnt worry about it. Just sit back and enjoy the movies.

 

[craig96]

Quote:

What I would suggest is to suplement your movie viewing with fullscreen and 4:3 (vertical bars) viewing to get a little of everything

The only thing is that regular 4:3 TV looks bad on 16:9 screen (horrible stretch mode). I don't have HDTV satelite. So I leave TV watching on ny 4:3 direct view TV.


What if I simply let the 16:9 RPTV play TV material for 5 hours for every 2hrs of movie watching? Even if I am not ractually watching for 5 hours.