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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


I have a very annoying problem with my ECP2100, on the blue and red tube there's quite thick horizontal lines, they are apparent when you for example show full red or full blue(white). The lines seem static in the way that they don't move for example when I move the picture. I have tried various scan rates with my HTPC using 3 different graphic cards and also a dvd with s-video with no difference AFAIK.


If this explaination is way to weak I can try taking some shots and post them here.


I would be a very happy man if this is something fixable, thanks!
 

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Have they always been there? Or did they just appear?


Is this projector new? (to you anyway)


Are all levels set properly? Specifically G2, but don't touch this if you don't know how!


Screen shots may help. Also, I assume they are pretty faint as you only see them on an all red or blue pic. Are these thick horizontal lines separated by thinner, brighter lines?
 

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I had a problem with horizontal lines with my ECP. They appeared about every 25 or so lines vertically, and were only very obvious near the left and right edges, disappearing towards the middle. Re-seating all the chips on one of the boards made the problem disappear. Just take the board out (it's the double one) and press all the chips in firmly (they'll make a crackling noise). Maybe a more technically-knowledgeable person will be able to explain this more clearly. Good luck!


Jonathan Furst

ECP 4500
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I think they've been there since I got it, a month ago or so.


I've set the G2 levels as stated in the service manual and here at avs.


If you look into the raster on the red and blue tube showing a white picture they're very apperent, but on they're harder to spot since the other tubes will "project over it".

I'm not sure if I really understood what you meant by "thick horizontal lines separated by thinner, brighter lines" but I'll check it out when I get home from work and also try to get some screenshots of it.


I really appreciate your help, thank you!
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Jonathan: Sounds very much like the problem I'm having, they do indeed disappear towards the middle. I've ripped all the cards and pushed on all socket mounted chips. I'm not sure which of the card you mean, I think both the convergence and the waveform boards are double, but it might be different in mine of course. Very glad to hear you got rid of it, gives me a little more hope, thanks! ;)
 

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Axe -


Are these lines absolutely horizontal, that is, parallel to the horizontal scan lines? Or are they slightly diagonal?


Sometimes in the ECP's and other units, a single line may appear if the convergence amp is straining due to a sloppy convergence (values are way off to one end or the other). But I've never heard of more than one line happening from this.


If they appear slightly diagonal, then I would offhand suspect your G2 is either too high or a related circuit is going bad. Not a bad idea though to reseat all boards and all chips (carefully), as this often remedies such problems with an older chassis.


Good luck,

Chris
 

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Very often it happens (specially on older ECP models), that some lines are visible between the scan lines. Specially if you choose a certain resolution (eg. 800x600) you can see black lines thicker than the normal black between the scan lines, every 2 or 3 lines, very often only in a vertical portion of the screen), or, horizontal lines moving vertically on the whole screen, or only a portion...


In the most of the cases, they're video noise produced by some old caps, specially the ones located on the LVPS (power supply), but sometime I found that they were produced by the presence of the ACON board (not the Acon, just the board) or some old caps on the waveform module and/or the video amplifier.


First of all try to replace all the output capacitors on the power supply (some 20-30) and then try to swap some boards, I'd say the waveform module, and the input module, first of all.


just a suggestion


ciao

Romano
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ChrisH: They are absolutely horizontal, so I suspect it's another problem.


rorox64: Interesting, but wouldn't also the green tube show the same problem if it were caps on the HVPS ?


Well, I have to muck arround with the boards one more time, last time I cleaned the connectors with no success.. I'll try and get a screenshot later, thanks for all your kind help!
 

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On mine it was actually a few of the lines bending up and overlapping other scan lines. If this is your problem, I suggest you re-seat the chips (again) and don't be afraid to press hard. I had to do it twice for it to work. Best of luck.


Jonathan Furst

ECP 4500
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Jonathan: I'm not sure if that is my problem, if I look into the raster with a white signal I can see what looks like "white" lines, they vary in length and are less visable through out the middle both horizontal and vertical vise. Also rechecked the G2 and that's not the problem, dropped it quite a bit on the blue tube and I could see the lines just as good as with lower G2. I'm starting to think that I wont be able to solve this problem, I've pushed every socket chip with no success so far..


I'm very grateful for all the help I've got, this forum is great!
 

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Axe,

I don't understand exactly what you're seeing. I would have thought for sure it was G2. Can you post some screen shots for us?
 

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Just thought of something else...are you set to "NO MOVE" with the move control? If you have too much H MOVE the image will wrap back on itself. If you are just hitting the too far point, I wonder if the lines aren't the edge coming back around? Something to check.
 

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Axe,


It might be your video nulls. Put up a screen shot of this problem because "a picture is worth a thousand words"......
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Jay: It looks just the same at the no move position, I know what you mean whit "image will wrap back on itself" and that's not really it.


Mike: I will check the video nulls when I get home for sure.


I tried taking a picture of it, but the picture wont show the lines clear enough and it will look rather distorted in general, might be the camera but I'll try once again.


Once again, thanks!
 

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Axe, Maybe you should set the video nulls just to be safe and eliminate them as a possibility. Do you kow how to do this? I just restup mine up last night so if I can be of help let me know.


I am thinking a pix, even distorted, might be better than nothing ?!? if we know it's distorted, can er still see the lines that you are seeing at all?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Jay: I've setup the video null's according to the service manual, but of course there's a chance I have done something wrong, though I had those nasty lines before I did it, but I'll check it tonight.


The thing with the pic I tried to take was that you could see some lines, but they didn't look even near how the looked on the screen, but I'll try and redo it and post it anyways.
 

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OK Axe, If you did it via the service manual, then its probably OK. You would have to be pretty far off I think to get lines. You watched the video go from positive to negative and set the null at the "in-between" point? Try a pix again...ask Mike, I've had just about every problem with my ECP (which he has graciously helped me with) and even I haven't had lines that I couldn't fix with one of the above suggestions! Please try again...how about a pix of the tube face? That would be easier, although even better would be with the lens off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Jay: I checked it again today and it doesn't seem to be it. When I did it I set brightnes at 10 and contrast at 0 and tweaked until I couldn't see any video on the raster, only "brightness", I hope that is the right way? ;)


Here you can find 2 screenshots, one of the blue and one of the red:

http://w1.171.telia.com/~u17110673/


I'm very sorry I couldn't give you guys anything better than this, this really proves what a liar my camera really is ;) There's some nasty compression artifacts in there which will distract the actual problem, but I hope it will alteast give some kind of hint, the lines are both bright and dark, though the pics doesn't show it so very well.

And one more thing, I tried viewing them in iexplorer and they looked ALOT better in photoshop, beats me why? To be honest I can't even spot the lines when I view it in iexplorer, so if you have the chance, please try and view them in another program instead.
 

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You're right. It is hard to tell. The only thing I can see is what appears to be a large dark area across the bottom of the screen. If this is it, this is normal (I've been told) for ECPS. I have heard it called "internal pluge" although I am not certain that this is the correct name. Mine fortunately does not exhibit this...at least I haven't noticed it. All of this assumes I am seeing what you are seeing. Mike will chime in here and let you know if I'm in the ballpark or not or if he see something different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Jay: Sorry, but that's not supposed to even be there ;) If you look carefully, you might be able to see many thin lines across the whole screen. I wish the camera could se the things I can see, would really help out here, it's really something you can't miss if you would see it live.. The strange part is that the green tube don't show them. If it could be to any help I noticed that if I stretch the picture vertically(with size) the lines will follow and there will be more space inbetween them, with other words it won't be more lines if it's "higher".
 
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