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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Every day, there's yet another post about someone worried that their receiver is running too hot.


Is there any evidence these receivers are not working as designed? Is there any evidence these receivers are going to fail significantly sooner due to heat?


Or are people being alarmists?


My 2700 ran quite hot, and it was mostly ok. I did have HDMI temporarily fail on me apparently due to heat. So I have personally seen some reason for concern. But I am not sure all that in general, there's a real problem going on that people need to address by adding cooling.


That being said, I don't think adding cooling hurts.
 

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If you look at the spacing requirements now-a-days in the owners manuals you will see some pretty ridiculous specs that I doubt many actually observe. If additional cooling is not used under these circumstances you risk premature failure due to excessive heat.


In this day and age of cramming 7 100watt amps into most receivers it is a valid concern compared to the old stereo days.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
One other thing I did not mention. It seems like the heat is not coming so much from the amplifier heat sinks as from another place. Given how hot chips run, it could be the prevalence of all the DSPs, HDMI chips, Video processing chips and the microprocessor.
 

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Thanks for this thread. Class D receivers can't come any quicker.


I've got 5x class D amps among/within my stuff, 2 large AB mch amps, and a class A integrated. Certain types simply run hotter than others.


I'd like to see someone shove a large Pass Labs into their AV cabinet, and then blame the amp for bad design when it gets too hot.



Large AB amps also make a lot of heat. Seems that some people just don't know it.


Then we have these skinnier speakers today, with low minimal impedances in the midbass, if only to reduce step diffraction. Noobs try blasting some HT with an AB receiver, and then blame the poor receiver for running too hot, huffing and puffing away with little to no ventilation.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes, I have often wondered about those slim line or "flat panel" speakers that seem to be marketed to flat panel owners more concerned about aesthetics than sound.


I wonder how well those things work.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/15416887


Yes, I have often wondered about those slim line or "flat panel" speakers that seem to be marketed to flat panel owners more concerned about aesthetics than sound.


I wonder how well those things work.

If you are referring to planar designs such as Martin Logan, Magnepan, Sound Labs, Apogee, etc... it is not about aesthetics at all. It is about superior transient response, huge sound stage, and less coloration. In fact, these models are far more sensitive to proper/improper placement than conventional box speakers, making the aesthetics of their installation less pleasing than you might think.
 

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Some of it is just plain bad design. There is no reason that a bypassed video processor should still be running hot. If it isn't being used it should be off.
 

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I believe there is more to it than just the amp's operating class and output capability. Granted a high power 100% class A amp will get very hot, especially at idle. But not all digital amps will run cool - witness the H/K DPR1005. My 300 watt/ch Innersound ESL class AB amp runs quite cool by any measure. I am no EE but I believe this is in part because of it's relatively low bias (which does not seem to hurt it's sound quality), and also perhaps because it has such a huge oversupply of output transistor capacity, which means the transistors never get very hot. And of course low-efficiency and low impedance speakers will make the amp work harder and generate more heat. Lastly, turning the volume level up will also turn the heat level up (except for 100% class A amps).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by s.bradford /forum/post/15417039


If you are referring to planar designs such as Martin Logan, Magnepan, Sound Labs, Apogee, etc... it is not about aesthetics at all. It is about superior transient response, huge sound stage, and less coloration. In fact, these models are far more sensitive to proper/improper placement than conventional box speakers, making the aesthetics of their installation less pleasing than you might think.

No, I am not talking about that type of speaker.


I am referring to some of these column designs from Sony or Yamaha or whatever.
 

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A certain amount of heat is probably "normal" and part of the expected design of the mfr. , some of the brands mentioned in this forum are inerrantly hot or very warm. If you think it is warmer than other similar models, give the mfr a call and ask them what temps are typical.

And, of course, proper spacing around the rcvr is imperative.
 

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I wish I had re-branded a PC Notebook fan as a "Hot Receiver Certified Cooling Unit" and sold them for $100 bucks or so. I could probably buy a small country on the profits.


The OP is right on target. There really is a great deal of paranoia about heat, too much. People are making product decisions and heat is for many, a top priority. I'm thankful for them that we aren't back in the tube amp days. I built some stuff that was nuclear in comparison.


Here's a cut and paste from the Onk 705 Service Manual: The first is when the unit will shut down from overheating conditions. These are really hot numbers!! The second is for when the fans do their thing. Even the fan conditions are rather warm, way more than what most people report or experience.


"The unit will go into Protect mode under the following conditions.

(T: Thermal sensor temperature)


After 10 minutes of T >= 100 C or

Immediately T 150 C or

Immediately T >= 90 C (if T > 40 C when power is on) or

Immediately T >= 90 C (if the unit is powered on longer than 24 hours)


Fan Operation (Vol H is measured at one of the Main MCU pins)

STOP: VOLH
LOW SPEED: VOLH >= 0.35V

MID SPEED: VOLH > =0.55V or T >= 55 C

HIGH SPEED: VOLH >= 0.45V and T >= 65 C


The fans don't come on until 130 degF. Too hot to leave your hand on it for more than a few seconds which is the standard AVR user temperature guage. Apparently, Onk engineers think our hot is their warm,


However, all being said, I'd never attempt to dissuade anyone from keeping their gear cooler if they can't sleep at night over it. Mine's nice and warm and I sleep well.
 

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OK, I'm not sure why people want to over complicate things with fans that require you rip off parts of PC and sell your children....



So I went back into the 705 thread and have pulled out a link that quite a few 805 people have used to buy powered fans that do the job quite nicely:

http://www.buyextras.com/cacoso.html


And the one I have

http://www.buyextras.com/evavcoblfanf.html


Much easier and works a treat. It's on when the 805 is on.


Seggers
 

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These companies need to start adding these fans on standard. I cant tell you how many times when I worked at circuit city I would see someone buy an onkyo 805 or something of the likes and tell me they were putting it in there closed cabinet along with 5 other electronic pieces. This would fry every electronic in that cabinet. Most people dont get on forums like these and will trust whatever Joe Electronic at Big Box tells them.


PS michaeljhuman is the most knowledgable person in this community
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty /forum/post/15430726


PS michaeljhuman is the most knowledgable person in this community

Not really
I just do my research, and attempt to apply the scientific method to buying and operating AV gear.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by notoriousmatty /forum/post/15430726


These companies need to start adding these fans on standard. I cant tell you how many times when I worked at circuit city I would see someone buy an onkyo 805 or something of the likes and tell me they were putting it in there closed cabinet along with 5 other electronic pieces. This would fry every electronic in that cabinet. Most people dont get on forums like these and will trust whatever Joe Electronic at Big Box tells them.

PS michaeljhuman is the most knowledgable person in this community

Well that's good to know. I'm not quite sure how you worked out that I was taking a dig at him. Actually, this wasn't taking a dig at anyone, I was throwing another option into the ring.


One that lazy people, like myself (I don't do solder etc and I like being able to plug something and have it work), could take a gander at and see if they'd prefer that route.


Plus, as stated, I do use one of those fans, as does my father-in-law on his heavily enclosed Onkyo 604.


Still, each to their own.....


Hope people's hangovers aren't too much rattled by too much window rattling by high powered AVR...



Seggers
 

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The reality is that receivers and amplifiers are not designed to be operated in closed cabinets unless they are actively ventilated. Unfortunately, all but a few furniture cabinet manufacturers don't have a clue as to what problems their designs present to owners of audio/video equipment. Wives like the electronics out of direct sight of course, and think a fancy piece of furniture will be just the thing. Thank goodness their husbands have access to AVS!
 
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