[dece870717]





I use this as my main music listening area. I have a set of Polk audio Rti A3 bookshelfs for speakers, a Yamaha A-S500 as my receiver, a 15 inch Dayton Audio RSS390HO-4 as my subwoofer in a sealed 2.0 cu. ft. enclosure powered by a buttkicker bka1000-n. The setup can get quite loud and thump real well but I was wondering what I could do to add that hit in the chest type of sound to it, I listen to mostly dance music which has quite a bit of fast punchy bass, I'd love to have that bit of hit in the chest like you would get listening to a DJ at a nightclub... Would I basically add a couple decent 8 inch woofers and have the A3 speakers sit on top of them and cross them over at around a certain range or what would be best way to do this? I know that mid-bass punch does have a lot to do with the listening area but would it matter as much when you're 3 feet away from the audio equipment?

 

[LTD02]

you would add a couple of pro audio 15-18" drivers, put them in large cabs tuned in the 30hz ballyard, give them a ton of power, and let them rip!

 

[FOH]

Midbass punch is a topic that's certainly been well covered around here.


I'd turn you sub around and fire it into the corner for starters, as there could be some destructive cancellation going on .. plus you will get better coupling to the corner boundaries.


Also, you need to be sure you're blending the sub and mains properly, with no destructive interference between the two.


Then, with EQ, accentuate the frequencies of interest and enjoy.

 

[kiwi2]

The first thing to do would be to take some frequency response measurements and see what is going on.

 

[dece870717]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02  /t/1523773/how-could-i-add-good-mid-bass-punch-to-my-pc-speaker-setup#post_24516476


you would add a couple of pro audio 15-18" drivers, put them in large cabs tuned in the 30hz ballyard, give them a ton of power, and let them rip!

Something like this http://www.parts-express.com/eminence-kappa-pro-15a-15-cast-frame-driver--290-422 ?


Or more like this http://www.parts-express.com/bc-15tbx100-15-woofer--294-670

 

[LTD02]

this would be a good option:

http://www.parts-express.com/bc-18ps76-18-woofer--294-675


it can be crossed over pretty high too (perhaps experimenting from about 100hz up to about 200hz or so) and you need to get some highs in there for punch.


what you are essentially looking for is a pro-audio type subwoofer.




or you could build up some better main speakers...there are several ways to go about it. the main point is you want to really be able to hit high spl from about 40hz up with no compression or distortion for that "club like" bass beat.

 

[FOH]

LTD,

Don't you think the 1kw-15", near-field, right between his legs, 1/8th space corner loaded subwoofer ... can achieve this?


IMO, fire the sub into the corner and look elsewhere for the issue (i.e., LCD capability of mains, properly blending mains with sub etc)


Just sayin', dude ...

 

[FOH]

Another idea.

I have a cheapo Klipsch Pro-Media 2.1 sat/sub three piece system, and the sub is way too localizable. So, I placed it up in a corner, behind my monitor, centered between the two sats.


That said, and merely with an eye on not buying anything, experiment a bit ... and raise the crossover point ... so the sub handles most of the punch region, off loading the mains. If needed for localizable effects, elevate the sub up on a shelf/bracket etc., as I did.


Granted, my smaller Klipsch sub was easier to place, but raising the crossover frequency would certainly be an interesting and simple experiment.


Thoughts?

 

[LTD02]

"Don't you think the 1kw-15", near-field, right between his legs, 1/8th space corner loaded subwoofer ... can achieve this?"


might be right. maybe the room is nulling out the mid-bass.

 

[LTD02]

"Granted, my smaller Klipsch sub was easier to place, but raising the crossover frequency would certainly be an interesting and simple experiment.

Thoughts?"


sounds good. the 50-150 hz ballpark is the "region of interest", so if crossing from the mains to the sub at 80hz, maybe the mains aren't up to the task.

 

[kiwi2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02  /t/1523773/how-could-i-add-good-mid-bass-punch-to-my-pc-speaker-setup#post_24517014


the 50-150 hz ballpark is the "region of interest", so if crossing from the mains to the sub at 80hz, maybe the mains aren't up to the task.

All it takes is one big null in that region and all punch is gone.


Measure the room.

 

[dece870717]

Using a umik-1 and the high cutoff on the buttkicker, I measured with 80hz cutoff, then set it to 160hz, then both cutoffs facing the corner, facing corner seems to be a bad idea...

80hz



80hz facing corner



160hz



160hz facing corner

 

[dece870717]

I tried something... I remembered that I had a spare 15inch that I didn't really know what to use with, its this http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dcs385-4-15-classic-subwoofer-4-ohm--295-206 in the same enclosure as the 15" HO powered by one of these http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-spa250-250-watt-subwoofer-plate-amplifier--300-803 that I put into the back of the enclosure. Listening to it with both subs going and It definitely sounds better and gets it pretty close to that punch feeling, but just not there, I think I simply need more power.



Also to note I most likely need a better amp for this 15"HO sub, using a Kill-a-watt and this buttkicker seems to only be giving out around 450-500watt continuous of good power and by that I mean if I turn the gain any higher, distortion becomes very apparent. Could try hooking up one of my home theater EPX4000 to it and see what that can do for it.

 

[LTD02]

neat.


the 160hz cross looks potentially promising. how does it work if you start with that then add delay to the mains until they are in phase with the sub?

 

[dece870717]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02  /t/1523773/how-could-i-add-good-mid-bass-punch-to-my-pc-speaker-setup#post_24518271


neat.


the 160hz cross looks potentially promising. how does it work if you start with that then add delay to the mains until they are in phase with the sub?

Setting both subs to 160hz cross does indeed help, adding delay helps slightly but best thing to do is simply add more power, maybe just get an epx4000 just for the PC sound setup and add another 15" HO? Or better off adding more of a pro audio sub? Or maybe I'll just leave it at this with these two subs cause I'm going to make myself deaf!

 

[Martycool007]

I think adding another HO15 would help in a lot of ways, but, for that strong mid-bass punch that you talk about, a good pro-woofer will be hard to beat. The best of which would be either an AE TD18 or a JBL-2242, but, there are plenty of others that would be good for far less $$.

 

[primetimeguy]

You can add all the power in the world and it won't fix a null. The 160hz crossover brought your bass up a lot in the 60-150hz range. Now your null is a bit higher so need to play with delays to get rid of that.

 

[dece870717]

I found one way to feel the chest pounding bass, I can sit at the same distance but it has to be right on the ground lol.

 

[FOH]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dece870717  /t/1523773/how-could-i-add-good-mid-bass-punch-to-my-pc-speaker-setup#post_24518565


I found one way to feel the chest pounding bass, I can sit at the same distance but it has to be right on the ground lol.

This would be correct, anytime you're placing yourself in a high pressure boundary region, up adjacent to any boundaries, that an area of high pressure, and all modes are maximized there.


Take it a step farther and move to the corner, especially the opposite diagonal corner, all modes are maximized.


But back to being directly in front of the sub, and on the floor boundary, both boundary effects and near field effects elicit the effects you seek.


Adequate level, good in phase summation without significant dips in FR ... that will get you what you seek.


Adequate level is achieved via proximity, boundary effects, more displacement, EQ, etc.


Good luck

 

[kiwi2]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dece870717  /t/1523773/how-could-i-add-good-mid-bass-punch-to-my-pc-speaker-setup#post_24518187


Using a umik-1 and the high cutoff on the buttkicker, I measured with 80hz cutoff, then set it to 160hz, then both cutoffs facing the corner, facing corner seems to be a bad idea.

Those FR swings are pretty severe. Many are between 15 to 20dB fluctuations and 25hz is 18dB hotter than average SPL. What octave resolution was that?


If it was me I would work on getting that a lot smoother and flatter. That strong 25hz region could be masking and muddying your mid bass region. Try things more flat for a while and then see what you think.


Experiment with different sub locations. Experiment with plugging various ports in either the speakers or subs. Can you implement PEQ from your PC music playback system?