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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Here is my setup. I have a Samsung led tv circa 2012, a pioneer elite receiver vsx21-thx, a Sony bluray player circa 2010, and a directv box circa 2009.

I have hdmi cable from receiver out to tv and hdmi cables from bluray and directv box to receiver. Fairly normal setup so far.

Okay, in addition I also have component cables from the directv box to the tv so the family can watch tv without needing to use the receiver. Finally, I have an optical cable from tv to receiver so I can get surround when using tv's smart content (Netflix, YouTube, etc.).

Bluray works fine (can only use with receiver on). Optical works fine. The issue is with directv when hdmi and component cables connected. When I disconnect the hdmi cable from directv box to receiver (which is now default) the family can watch tv through component connection.

If both component and hdmi are connected from directv box, the component connection works (no error) IF I turn on the receiver (receiver input doesn't matter). For clarification, this is with component input on tv. Turn on receiver and it works with both cables connected.

Finally, the surround sound with directv box does work through hdmi from dtv box to receiver (using tv hdmi input) with component cables connected.

Have not tested hdmi cable directly from dtv box to tv with component cables not connected in case that might be important.

All makes sense? How do I find out what is causing the Hdcp issue?
 

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FYI: In the early days of HDMI, set mfrs FIXED various HDCP problems by sending you a FIRMWARE Update.
You should email SONY Support and inquire about an UPDATE (should be FREE or nominal charge for the USB Thumbdrive).
 

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With some devices, HDMI and component do not work concurrently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
FYI: In the early days of HDMI, set mfrs FIXED various HDCP problems by sending you a FIRMWARE Update.
You should email SONY Support and inquire about an UPDATE (should be FREE or nominal charge for the USB Thumbdrive).
Thanks. I assume you mean Samsung, which is the make of my tv?

Anyway, I actually updated my tv about a year and a half ago and there was no change. Thinking something else is causing the issue.
 

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With some devices, HDMI and component do not work concurrently.
This is the case with some, but not all, DirecTV boxes. They don't work with both component AND HDMI attached concurrently. With the number of displays I have in my "bar," I had it all wired so that every source was available on every screen. With an older RPTV, that meant component. The flatscreens: HDMI. This worked very well until around 2 years ago. Firmware update stopped the simultaneous output. Two of my receivers object by putting a huge dialog box in the middle of the screen until one of the outputs is disconnected. The older box just drops the picture every few seconds as if something's not connected well.

My workaround was to use component video distribution amps to feed nearly every screen.

In YOUR case, I'm going to take an educated guess and say the D* receiver knows if an HDMI cable is connected to your AVR (it can sense that without the AVR being on). It assumes HDMI (a natural assumption) so it attempts a handshake. With power off to the AVR, it can't process the handshake. When that fails, the D* box stops video output. With your box, that means all of it.
 

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so let me see if i am understanding
everything works fine except when the receiver is off, then the directv components dont work?

if so that is most likely hdcp kicking in
it knows there is a non active hdmi connection and turns off all inputs
its known to happen when people want to mirror tvs with components , they cant unless both tvs are on
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thanks DrDon (and MdRam). I think you may have answered my most mysterious question about the whole set up; when both hdmi and component are connected, why does the picture come in on component when I turn on the AVR.

So I wonder whether there is a solution with my current set up? I suppose in theory I could buy one of those splitters in the previous post and put it between the dtv box and avr (and actually use the second connection and also go straight to the tv), removing the component cables altogether? I wonder if that would work? Or maybe just put use the splitter from dtv box to avr and keep the component cables (was reading that the splitter could overheat with two hdmi cables on the other end).

Anyway, perhaps the issue isn't really with the equipment (save maybe the dtv box)? I an thinking about getting another TV and another box. The newest of each would be placed in the HT center so maybe that would make things work in roughly the same configuration (with the most important aspect being the ability to watch TV with and without the avr engaged (and not having to connect and disconnect any cables). Incidentally, do any dtv boxes have more than one hmi out slots? Would this make a difference?

Thanks.
 

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its been said on the dtv forums that a powered hdmi splitter will provide the hdcp feedback the box is looking for and allow the component cables to work without the hdmi tv being turned on
 

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Thanks DrDon (and MdRam). I think you may have answered my most mysterious question about the whole set up; when both hdmi and component are connected, why does the picture come in on component when I turn on the AVR.
The video output status is tied to the HDMI status:

No HDMI device detected = video on.
HDMI detected, no HDCP = video off.
HDMI detected, HDCP ok = video on.

And by "video," I mean the box's entire video processing. If it gets an hdpc error, it's instructed to stop processing video, which should affect all of the outputs.

The fact your box doesn't also have a line that says "HDMI and component connected = video off" is interesting. I did think they fixed that in the firmware for all but the oldest HD receivers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
The video output status is tied to the HDMI status:

No HDMI device detected = video on.
HDMI detected, no HDCP = video off.
HDMI detected, HDCP ok = video on.

And by "video," I mean the box's entire video processing. If it gets an hdpc error, it's instructed to stop processing video, which should affect all of the outputs.

The fact your box doesn't also have a line that says "HDMI and component connected = video off" is interesting. I did think they fixed that in the firmware for all but the oldest HD receivers.
. Hmm? Not sure I am following completely? What I an getting with both component and hdmi connected (without AVR NOT on) is the typical message that says to use component cables.
 

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. Hmm? Not sure I am following completely? What I an getting with both component and hdmi connected (without AVR on) is the typical message that says to use component cables.
in your case the not being on turns off the video on the directv box
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
So I went ahead and bought a splitter. Installed between the dvr and receiver and presto, it does the job. Thought I would come back and let people know.

For now I am still using the component cables (since I only had one extra lying around). Probably no reason to remove the component cables right now.

Thanks.
 

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Thanks for the report. Which splitter did you buy?
 

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Thanks for the link to the ViewHD Ultra HD | 4K HDMI 1x2 Mini Powered Splitter | Model: VHD-Pluto. That might help others with the same problem.

It looks like it is made by the same company as the ViewHD 2 Port 1x2 Powered HDMI Mini Splitter for 1080P & 3D | Model: VHD-1X2MN3D suggested by Jason Fitzpatrick, the How-To Geek in post #2 , but a newer model.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004F9LVXC/?tag=hotoge-20
 

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Thanks for all the posters adding their findings on the HDCP error.
And let me provide my HDCP error and the eventual solution.

My setup:
Pioneer VSX 1121-K receiver
BELL FIBE set top box
Apple TV gen 2
PS4
Sony BD
Panasonic Plasma GT55

I was getting an HDCP error on my receiver intermittently for over a year.
I'd be watching TV and all of sudden screen and audio would go blank
and on the Pioneer receiver "HDCP ERROR" would be displayed.

I've tried
* restarting the receiver, set top box, TV.
* plugging the HDMI cable from the TV directly to individual components and this actually worked for a while, which is why I initially didn't think it was the HDMI cable
* disconnected the BELL set top box from the receiver
* disabled HDMI control in the receiver config
* I received a brand new BELL set top box
* I added fans in my cabinet with a thermal control sensor, the PS4 and the set top box get very warm, so I thought it might be cooling problems

I was still getting the HDCP error.


Possible root causes:

1) Pioneer 1121-K receiver going bad. I thought it might be over heating because we got a component cabinet and there was no venting. So I bought fans that exhaust the warm air out of the cabinet. I have a thermal controller that automatically turns on when a pre-determined temp setting is hit. the interior of the cabinet was reaching 35-38 deg C. That's in the 90-100 deg F range. It now stays well under 30 deg C now. I was still getting an error.

2) HDMI cable is bad. I have the cable from the TV to the receiver running in the walls because we wanted to hide all of our cabling. I tried connecting that HDMI cable to the Apple TV, PS4, Blue Ray player and it worked. So I didn't think it was in wall cable. INITIALLY.

3) BELL tv set top box.
I had come across a post that the HDCP error could be from a copyright packet that is sent in the signal and the HDMI hardware is having an issue when it encounters that packet. So Bell sent me recently a new box. And I was still having the HDCP error and it was happening more frequently. I actually could not watch TV anymore, and plugging the cable direct to the components was also failing.
The NEW tv box did not change the outcome. The error being displayed was that the TV was having an issue, please reboot / update the firmware on the TV.

I was now thinking it was my receiver. It had the latest firmware.
Could it be the TV? It didn't need any firmware updates.
But when I took the receiver out of the equation and plugged another HDMI cable in from the Bell box to the TV, it worked.
I then ordered a longer cable and put all the components back in the cabinet and used the new cable


Conclusion.
My problem was that my old 7yr old HDMI cable that was in the wall, had gone bad.
I ordered a brand new HDMI cable that is CL3 rated from Amazon, meaning it's meant for in-wall installations.
I connected it to the output of my VSX 1121-K and to the HDMI #1 input on my tv and everything was
working as it did originally.

I've re-run the cable in the walls again after a few weeks of being connected outside the wall and confirmed that all was good.
 
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