[Pyrophoric]

or DTS-HD Master Audio?


I have ripped a couple Blu-Ray movies (edit: that I own btw) to mkv files and kept the audio at the highest quality. My HTPC is outputting audio through a Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer Pro via 3x3.5mm to RCA (so 6 RCA channels) to a Denon AVR-2310CI. Mostly, I play through WMC using Skark007 codec package.


Surround sound is coming through but it really sounds a little different than if I were running straight off a Blu-Ray through my PS3 Slim (Bitstream, blue HD Audio light for confirmation).


So going back to my original question... How can I tell in Windows whether HD Audio is being properly sent to the receiver? Either that or what steps must I take to ensure that it does?


Thanks!

 

[Pyrophoric]

Anyone?

 

[MikeEby]

Did you encode your audio in FLAC? I've never heard of anyone getting DTS-HD or TrueHD over analog working. BTW I use FLAC over analog, the way I know it's lossless is it's the only audio track I include in the file. I think ReClock will also report the bitrate. I'm pretty sure you need to have PAP to get DTS-HD or TrueHD working...I don't think the Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer supports PAP.


Mike

 

[blackcell]

Please define for us, "kept the audio at the highest quality"?

Did you reencode to FLAC or ??


How you tell is the same as what you already seen with PS3 slim. However, HD audio can only be transmitted over HDMI which most of us here use a ATI 5xxx card.


FLAC is also lossless and if you're using FLAC but it sounds different

(define different?) than your BD discs then it's likely something to do with your Windows configuration (X-fi, codecs, audio encoding, etc.). Your AVR should display PCM in the case of using FLAC. Some folks who prefer FLAC (or limited to) go to extra measures to get that added audio fidelity using Reclock .


I don't believe PAP is required if using FFDshow (later builds). A guy here who goes by the handle "rica" would know.


Before I moved to Bitstreaming with an ATI card I had a Creative X-Fi and was completely dissatisfied. Card is now on my shelf collecting dust.

 

[Pyrophoric]

Thanks for the replies. I need to double check the method I used to rip the Blu-Ray but it ripped a file about 40gb so I thought I did a straight rip.


As for being able to transmit HD audio only over HDMI, here are several links that seem to disagree including a PDF from Dobly.

Blu-Ray Explained

Dolby.com (see item #25)

Big Picture Big Sound

Wiki

 

[jreese831]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric /forum/post/18196663


As for being able to transmit HD audio only over HDMI, here are several links that seem to disagree including a PDF from Dobly.

Blu-Ray Explained

Dolby.com (see item #25)

Big Picture Big Sound

Wiki

I think that you might be a little confused as to what people are trying to figure out here. You are correct in stating that HD audio can be transmitted over analog, but only as PCM--that is, decoded by the player/computer/PS3 and sent to the receiver as 6- or 8-channel audio. As far as I know, if you are getting surround sound with your movies over analog cables, then it is being decoded properly by your machine. What you cannot do, and I read nothing in those articles that stated otherwise, is bitstream HD audio over analog cables--that is, send an unmolested audio stream to the receiver, where it is then decoded into 5.1 or 7.1 channels. This can only be done over HDMI, and requires a receiver capable of decoding the HD audio formats.

 

[hirent]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric /forum/post/18192303


How can I tell in Windows whether HD Audio is being properly sent to the receiver? Either that or what steps must I take to ensure that it does?

Get an ATI 5000 series video card and a HDMI cable. Ditch the sound card and the 6 analog cables. Back up your blu-ray discs in blu-ray format/ISO and play using MPC-HC. Your receiver will light up akin to using the PS3 slim.

Let your receiver handle everything; and you will know for sure it is HD.

 

[Davinleeds]

DTS White Paper has a better explanation concerning analog verses digital. If you are using a software solution, PDVD works with ALC889 on specific motherboards and ASUS TMT with Xonar HDAV 1.3 analog. Retail TMT seems to downsample to 48/16 even for analog.

 

[jrwalte]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hirent /forum/post/18197239


Get an ATI 5000 series video card and a HDMI cable. Ditch the sound card and the 6 analog cables. Back up your blu-ray discs in blu-ray format/ISO and play using MPC-HC. Your receiver will light up akin to using the PS3 slim.

Let your receiver handle everything; and you will know for sure it is HD.

MPC-HC will not pass HD audio by default. You have to install FFDShow latest beta and make a few changes in MPC-HC config for it to pass through HD codecs. The only truly plug and play option with ATI 5000 is PowerDVD9 and WinDVD 10 (though I hear it's still buggy).


OP,


As of now, no, you are not getting HD audio. In fact, with those MKV files, you never will. I doubt you converted them to flac (and also installed the proper codec to decode DTS-MA) and are instead getting the DD and DTS cores from the HD codecs.


The easiest solution is to get an ATI 5000 as mentioned and use PowerDVD 9 and copy all your discs as ISO instead of ripping to MKV. If you want a little more complex setup, then you can rip to MKV with .truehd or .dtsma audio and use MPC-HC with FFDShow beta. Both of these options will light up on your receiver with the TrueHD or DTSMA logo and will give you an unaltered original HD audio stream to the receiver.


The hardest solution is to convert all audio to flac (while being sure to install the proper codec to be able to decode DTS-MA otherwise you'll only get the DTS core) and then properly setup Windows and your sound card to pass through the analog audio without altering it. This can get tricky.

 

[hirent]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jrwalte /forum/post/18197305


MPC-HC will not pass HD audio by default. You have to install FFDShow latest beta and make a few changes in MPC-HC config for it to pass through HD codecs. The only truly plug and play option with ATI 5000 is PowerDVD9 and WinDVD 10 (though I hear it's still buggy).

I assumed it was understood or at least OP would look it up if he was interested enough to go that route since it is freeware.

Sometimes I forget to be detailed in posts. In any case your post provides all the info needed to get going.

OP, Good Luck!

 

[Pyrophoric]

Yeah, I already know there is no way to bitstream through analog. Thats why I wanted to know if there was a way to verify that HD Audio is being transmitted to the receiver in Windows.


Buying a 5xxx card isn't really something I want to do right now. I already have a 4870x2 which is almost as good as the 5890 without having to spend another $700. It's only limitation is not having HDMI where the 5890 does. *Edit* Unless it is possible to throw in a cheap/low end 5xxx card along side my 4870x2. I don't think that is possible though, how would I deligate which card is used for gaming and which is used for HD video?


I don't have to use MKV files when ripping the Blu-Rays. Is there any output format or application that will allow me to decode the HD audio and transmit it to my receiver through the Creative card?


As an alternative, maybe I could stream to my PS3 slim and let it bitstream the audio to the receiver to decode?

 

[fschris]



Quote:
Originally Posted by hirent /forum/post/18197239


Get an ATI 5000 series video card and a HDMI cable. Ditch the sound card and the 6 analog cables. Back up your blu-ray discs in blu-ray format/ISO and play using MPC-HC. Your receiver will light up akin to using the PS3 slim.

Let your receiver handle everything; and you will know for sure it is HD.

or you can get an asus xonar card and plug it straight into a 5 channel amp...then you can play true hd.

 

[HaLo6]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jrwalte /forum/post/18197305


In fact, with those MKV files, you never will..

I don't think this is correct. I have been ripping BR to MKV with MakeMKV (the latest version) and it has the HD audio stream as confirmed by MediaInfo...

 

[Pyrophoric]



Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris /forum/post/18197994


or you can get an asus xonar card and plug it straight into a 5 channel amp...then you can play true hd.

Are you talking about the Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe connected via HDMI? Wouldn't that be the same thing as getting a lower end ATI 5xxx card which would be cheaper? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are talking about.

 

[Pyrophoric]



Quote:
Originally Posted by HaLo6 /forum/post/18198103


I don't think this is correct. I have been ripping BR to MKV with MakeMKV (the latest version) and it has the HD audio stream as confirmed by MediaInfo...

Whoa, this is the first time I am hearing about mediainfo. This many be the answer to my original question, though not my current problem. From googling, it sounds as though mediainfo will tell you what your receiver should be receiving if you were to play a particular video file, is this correct?


Or is it also dependent on what type of software player you are using? So if I had a mkv file and medioinfo reports TrueHD and if I use something like shark007 codec pack to play through WMC could I be sure that I am transmitting HD Audio?

 

[MikeEby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric /forum/post/18198125


Are you talking about the Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe connected via HDMI? Wouldn't that be the same thing as getting a lower end ATI 5xxx card which would be cheaper? Maybe I am misunderstanding what you are talking about.

No the Deluxe has analog out; I think they are RCA jacks. It also has very quality D/A converters and OP Amps in the analog section. Before you spend a lot of money on a sound card you should have some decent speakers or else may be a waste of effort and $$$.



Mike

 

[Pyrophoric]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEby /forum/post/18198169


No the Deluxe has analog out; I think they are RCA jacks. It also has very quality D/A converters and OP Amps in the analog section.



Mike

Huh?


The deluxe I quoted has HDMI but my question is, wouldn't that be the same as an ATI 5xx card? The audio processing quality of the card shouldn't matter as it would be bitstreamed and the receiver would do the decoding.


My receiver is a Denon AVR-2310CI with SVS STS-01 Fronts, SCS-01 Center, SCS-01(M) Rear. The setup sounds AWESOME with TrueHD/DTS-HD on my PS3 Slim bitstreamed.


As far as buying another sound card, I am trying to do anything I can to find a way around that. Still though, if I go with the highest end Asus card or an ATI 5xxx card how with that work since I already have a video card that is better for gaming? Could I have my 4870x2 connected directly to the TV and the HDMI sound card connected to the receiver or how would it work?

 

[MikeEby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophoric /forum/post/18198230


Huh?


The deluxe I quoted has HDMI but my question is, wouldn't that be the same as an ATI 5xx card? The audio processing quality of the card shouldn't matter as it would be bitstreamed and the receiver would do the decoding.

Yes if your receiver supports TRUEHD and DTS-HD the Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe will work but it's more costly with little or benefits over the ATI card when using HDMI.


Ok you have very good gear...then you would benefit having HD Audio.


Mike

 

[Pyrophoric]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEby /forum/post/18198270


Yes if your receiver supports TRUEHD and DTS-HD the Xonar HDAV1.3 Deluxe will work but it's more costly with little or benefits over the ATI card when using HDMI.


Ok you have very good gear...then you would benefit having HD Audio.


Mike

Awesome, thanks for the help!

 

[hirent]



Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEby /forum/post/18198169


No the Deluxe has analog out; I think they are RCA jacks. It also has very quality D/A converters and OP Amps in the analog section. Before you spend a lot of money on a sound card you should have some decent speakers or else may be a waste of effort and $$$.

Mike

I agree. You need really good speakers to appreciate HD audio.


Here's another suggestion:

Since you already have a 4870, why not just transmit decoded LPCM over HDMI. True, you lose a little since its limited to 48KHz/16 bit but most of the tracks out there are 48KHz/16, some are 48/24 and a few 96Khz and even rare is 192Khz (mostly concert BDs).


Check your collection and see what tracks you have.

Even with LPCM limited to 48/16 it will still sound good.


Or you could get the cheap HD5450 ($35) and use it just for audio if you have another PCIE slot. The video can still be played by the 4870X2. Not sure how it could be implemented but its an idea to try out.