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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How does a Sim2 C3XE stack up in today's market? I know that posts from 2008 or so were saying that this is still a top unit even though it's 720p. Where do you think it stands in 2011?
 

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I would think that a Runco LS10i would be a better comparison. It is a 1080p 3-chip DLP at 25% less than the original MSRP of the 720p C3X. However, it is still a very expensive option ($22,000).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Agreed, the fair comparison is a 1080 3 chip unit. That's the thing, a 1080 3 chip unit is very expensive weather it's .65 like the Runco 10i or DPI HighLite or .95 like the Runco VX-22 or Sim2 C3X 1080, Lumis etc. There is no question that those units are tops in the game of higher lumen larger screen projection.


However, if you have a larger screen but don't want to spend the 1080 3 chip price tag, there are only a few choices.

1) Go with less lumens (many choices here Lcos, Lcd, 1 chip dlp, led dlp etc.)

2) Go with high output single chip (Sim2 Crystal, Runco HB, Vivitek 5080, Infocus sp8602 etc.)

3) Go with 720 3 chip (Sim2 C3XE)


Based on my experience choice 3 provides a much better picture. In fact, the resolution difference between a 720 and 1080 is not really that big a difference (I'm sitting 1.83 screen widths). However, choice 1, lower lumens is a real problem that cannot be corrected. Choice 2, can be good, but just not as good as a 3 chip unit. So for the used price of the C3XE (demos being sold for a fraction of the new cost), it's a real bargain.


I've spent a lot of time in the past few months comparing choice 2 and 3 and just can't see how someone would chose single chip DLP after spending time with a 3 chip unit. My progression was LCD to Lcos, could never go back. Then Lcos to 1 chip DLP, could never go back. Now 1 chip DLP to 3 chip, but have not pulled the trigger as yet.
 

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My biggest concern would be being able to see the individual pixels/SDE. If you can't see them on your screen at your 1.83 screen width viewing distance, then what are you waiting for?! Go for it! Just as long as you don't occasionally zoom for scope movies like I do with 1080.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I've had the unit in my theater for demo and can confirm that I see no pixels/SDE from where I sit.


Yes, that's a good point. Zooming for scope movies really didn't work in my setup with the C3XE (720). However, I have had luck zooming with 1080 where the impact of going to 817 lines was not apparent. However, 720 down to 544 is very noticeable (strange?). I would be using an anamorphic lens with the unit (I already own one).


So I guess the solution is using a 3 chip 720 unit, sitting far enough away so there is no SDE, and making sure to use an anamorphic lens for scope movies (CIH). I think if those conditions can be met, you can get a picture that's 90% as good as the 3 chip 1080 units at a fraction of the cost.


As far as pulling the trigger, I'm very close, just gathering some more information.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
There are 3 types of 720p units that I know of. The C3X, C3X Lite and C3X-E. The E version is the best with highest light output and better processing. For this reason it's the hardest to find and most expensive. The C3X is the older version that's pretty darn good on it's own. It can be upgraded to the E by Sim2. The Lite is also an older unit that has a lower power lamp for medium light output. It still puts out more lumens than most of your single chip units. The Lite cannot be upgraded to the "E" version so it can be had for very low prices.


You can find people selling these on Videogon, Audiogon and ebay. There are some for sale now, PM me if you want more information.
 

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I stumbled across a good deal on an Infocus sp777 (3 chip 720p). This unit was a competitor to the c3x. Clearly better in most ways to my vw60. Much better shadow details. Love the increased brightness. It is bigger and more noisy, but not bothersome. The sim2 units are smaller, but not quieter.


I too am debating the move up to 1080p 3 chip dlp. I've been hesitant because of the expense and the fact that I've noticed some moire effect with the dlp unti on my AT screen. I assume this is due to the 720p resolution and/or increased sharpness of dlp. the Sony at 1080p never showed any moire. slightly defocusing the dlp fixes the moire, but softens the image more than I'd like.


anyone know if 1080p dlp will reduce the moire effects on an weaved AT screen?
 

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We have a C3X 1080p res SIM2 here on an SI Lunar Maestro AT screen. I have never noticed any moire effect. The picture is a stunner!
 

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Hello, I just came back from a former Sim2 dealer in Las Vegas.

I had mentioned that I was looking for an C3XE model for my home

theater. He told me to run as far as I can from Sim2 as their projectors

tend break down more often than others he was familar with. He no

longer carries Sim2 for that reason. I was just wondering what the reliablity

of Sim2 is or was he was just trying to sell me something else.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysandi /forum/post/20834736


Hello, I just came back from a former Sim2 dealer in Las Vegas.

I had mentioned that I was looking for an C3XE model for my home

theater. He told me to run as far as I can from Sim2 as their projectors

tend break down more often than others he was familar with. He no

longer carries Sim2 for that reason. I was just wondering what the reliablity

of Sim2 is or was he was just trying to sell me something else.

I have also been told that from a reputable dealer/isf calibrator. I don't want to put his name out there but he is here on the forums and most people know him. He said for me to stay away from the Sim2 products when I was interested in the Crystal units. He told me they tend to break down and the only one he would consider is the Lumis and the iris doesn't work 75% of the time.


It seems owners of Sim2 products are very happy and say nothing else compares. I know a lot of dealers out here in the Bay Area, CA say Sim2 makes the best projectors.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkumar /forum/post/20813379


How does a Sim2 C3XE stack up in today's market? I know that posts from 2008 or so were saying that this is still a top unit even though it's 720p. Where do you think it stands in 2011?

I got this projector recently and the color and brightness are unbelievable....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The old reliability argument. It looks great, I know you really like it, but it will just break down. That is the oldest trick in the book, especially when there is nothing else to fault. As you can tell I'm skeptical of dealers especially when they tell you about brands they no longer carry.


As far as used projectors like the ones here I think the buyers should know the risk. That's why they sell at such a discount. From a technology point of view, I think 3 chip dlp's are the most reliable. Lcos has aging issues, single dlp's have color wheels etc. Three chips have few moving parts and no aging issues.
 

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Single chip DLP with LED light engine.


The least moving parts you can get with the best of all worlds.
 

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It seemed the original question was (in part) if you'd be happy with 720p when the rest of the world has gone 1080p. I had to spend a week with my old 720p projector while my 1080p was getting repaired and it wasn't all that bad. I didn't see any SDE, but there is a degree of sharpness that was missing when watching blu-rays. HDTV also benefits from higher resolution, but not as much. I think DVDs and Internet videos actually look better with a 720p projector.


Basically I really missed the resolution and contrast of the newer technology. However, my old projector doesn't have a the brightest bulb, so that may have been part of the reason I missed the new projector. Also, I believe I read 3 chip DLP projectors can produce better colors than those that use a color wheel. It was something about blending 3 colors at the same time can create more subtle shades and transitions than flashing the colors with a color wheel.


Myself, I'd not spend a lot of money for a 720p projector these days. But I don't see how you can go too far wrong if you can get a good deal on a used Sim2 C3XE that is in good shape.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Agreed, the best projected image demo I've ever seen was with a Runco Q750i in a completely dark room using a 105" screen. The picture was super sharp and had amazing colors and blacks. The problem is right now the light output is still low. Mos likely led will be my next projector as soon as they get more light, maybe even a 2.35 chip. Probably a few years from now.
 
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