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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How does LCOS compare to DLP TV?

Goodguys carry Sony Wega and I know toshiba has one. I could not find any info about LCOS vs DLP rear projection TV.
 

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There are a few threads that address this sort of thing, if you search for them. Your question is also very general, as there are multiple facets involved in such a comparison such as picture quality, price, astetics and stability/maintainability.


Here are my two cents with regard to what I've seen as someone who has looked extensively at DLPs and finally purchased a Toshiba LCoS 57HLX82 last March:


1) 3-chip LCoS as rendered by Toshiba has the better PQ on all sources: HD, DVD, and SD (even compressed DirecTV). The former are likely true because of the 1080p resolution, the latter because of the 3-chip rendering (DLP has a lot more work to do to put a bad SD image on the screen). The Phillips 1-chip LCoS IMHO performs worse than current DLP offerings on all inputs. It has the disadvantages of a 1-chip design coupled with the slower response rate of the LCoS.


2) The Tosh LCoS, even for its potential 2003 models, is a bit pricier than the Samsung DLPs. The 2002 model was *definitely* more expensive.


3) Okay, but how about maintainability/stability? The Toshiba 57HLX82 is pretty much unmaintainable. They never produced a service manual and have no way of fixing the problems in these sets other than swapping out for a new one. That has become a problem, since they have run out of new ones and have resorted to promising replacement with the 2003 models. The problem with that is no one knows when, or if, the 2003 line will appear. The Sammy DLP had a lot of OOTB problems to begin with but these have largely been worked out over time. The availability of a service manual means there is a lot of support on the forum for these as well. They are selling like hot cakes, so future support would also seem to be very bright.


Note that Optoma also has finally come out with the DLP sets. The PQ is a bit better than the Samsung, the price is around $1K more, and the availability is limited. Future maintainability is TBD.


Summary Ranking:


PQ: 3-chip LCoS, 1-chip DLP, 1-chip LCoS

Price: 1-chip DLP, 1-chip LCoS (may be equal to DLP, but given PQ I don't care), 3-chip LCoS

Long-term Maintainability: 1-chip DLP, Nearly everyone else, 3-chip LCoS


I will end with saying that after having the pristine image of a 3-chip LCoS it will be hard to settle for anything else; however, my current image problems (show up on certain backgrounds) and the inherent lack of maintainability of this technology to date will make it hard for me not to eventually switch over. It Tosh can deliver on its 2003 replacement for me I will be in the game for a bit longer. Perhaps it will all work out.


I do not know what the longer-term outlook for either of these technologies are. 3-chip DLP would see to me to be a killer since it would resolve image rendering issues that result from the use of a color wheel. I would think that such a set would have an absolutely hard image. Moving up to 1080p would also be a boost.
 

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I don't agree with what you said about the Philips LCoS - I believe the PQ of this set is a little better than that of DLP with HD inputs and, more so, with SD inputs.
 

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I think it all depends on the particular Cineos a person sees and it's current state of functioning :). I've only seen one and the first time I saw it it looked very nice. I've seen it a couple times since and it seems to have developed maladies that weren't easily adjusted away...


ron
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolfo
I don't agree with what you said about the Philips LCoS - I believe the PQ of this set is a little better than that of DLP with HD inputs and, more so, with SD inputs.
Yes, there is always the problem of which set you see in what particular state of functioning. I have seen two in two different locations. The first was a tweaked as they could get it and still have a purple cast to all images. Besides that there was a very apparent problem with the set keeping up with fast-moving images: HD included. The second instance was at a Frys where the set looked even worse. It almost seemed to be exhibiting a convergence problem, although I know that isn't possible.


Note that the same is true with DLP and other LCoS sets: many have seen instances that looked like crap, while a well-tuned and non-buggy set can look wonderful. It just seems that right now Phillips has more instances of bad than good, but that could very well change. The same was true with the early Samsung DLPs.
 

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The Philips 1-chip LCoS is 1st gen, and I think they rushed to market with mass production too quickly, and apparently have ran into some QC issues. Hopefully they can fix these issues, because I do see this set as a potential winner, IMO. Certainly on paper they seemed have have done most things right. I was reading some of their LCoS scientific publications they have posted on their research site, and they were very interesting ... now if they can only execute correctly.


Here are a few of the papers I found interesting

http://www.research.philips.com/Asse..._16-1-1077.pdf
http://www.research.philips.com/Asse...w4_16-1076.pdf
http://www.research.philips.com/Asse..._16-6-1081.pdf


Oh, and BTW, one of the benefits is supposed to be lower cost because they are manufactured as IC's, so existing IC manufactures can produce LCoS chips without having to build entirely new factories. Additionally, Philip's is supposedly licensing their light engine to OEM partners to help drive down prices quickly (we'll see) .. so I would actually order them cost-wise


1-chip LCoS, 1-chip DLP, 3-chip LCoS [...] 3-chip DLP


Another good article on LCoS, as compared to DLP and transmissive LCD is here
http://www.projectorcentral.com/lcos.htm
 

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BTDT, the set I've seen has definitely developed the purple cast and just generally looks "off" compared to the first time I saw it. It actually looked very vibrant but still natural and very smooth on the first viewing. Enough that I think I would probably pick it over the Sammy PQ-wise (if they could get them stable).


ron
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Dolfo
I don't agree with what you said about the Philips LCoS - I believe the PQ of this set is a little better than that of DLP with HD inputs and, more so, with SD inputs.
If there were more people that agreed with you and if I could actually see one without the purple problem then I might believe you.


I'm still interested in the Philips LCoS sets, but the one magazine review I've read gave it a lower rating than what they gave a Sammy DLP and I haven't seen or read anything yet that would make me choose it over a DLP. At least the LCD RPTVs cost less and so they are still attractive despite PQ differences.
 

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Xavier,


A couple of points regarding the Phillips LCOS set.


First, for those of us who have been following its release, it is clear that there have been some QC issues with the initial batch of sets. It is equally clear that Phillips knows what the problem is and has a fix for it. I've actually viewed the same set pre and post fix and it was a night and day difference (no purple push, great color, very, very high resolution-probably better than a Sammy DLP).


Second, it's really a very personal choice regarding PQ. People can supply all sorts of data and arguments, but until you can actually view LCOS and DLP units side-by-side, all of the arguments regarding which set has better PQ are really pretty meaningless.


I'd sit things out for another few weeks. By that time, the Phillips fix should be out everywhere and enough of its units should be in the stream of commerce for you to do personal, side-by-side comparison to the Sammy. In the end, your opinion is the only one that matters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I have not seen Philips LCOS set.

I have seen Sony Wega LCOS at GoodGuys. The main -ve is it has speakers on the side so I can't fit it.

I have not seen toshiba either.


I wonder if I should wait or just get Samsung HLN507
 

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Wega LCOS???? I don't think so. The only LCOS Sony has put out is a $20K+ FP. Do you mean LCD?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Sony LCOS is on sale at Goodguys in bellevue for ~ $3600. That is when I came to know such a thing exists.

They told me Sony is discontinuing this model and that is why it is on sale.

It is a 3 chip LCOS RP TV.
 

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I think he means the Grand Wega RP-LCDs. Sony is, however, working on an LCoS variant for release in the misty future.


It is good to hear the Phillips already understands and has a fix for the purple problem. I always wonder how such pervasive problems make it out of test in the first place? The 3-chip LCoS is *VERY* sharp. I would expect the same sharpness out of the 1 chip (albeat at 720p) with perhaps some degradation due to the prism color realization.


The more good technologies the better!
 

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I for one have made my reservations for the CES next Jan. I am hoping by then then the bugs wll be worked out and I can see them side by side. It would have been nice to have one by Christmas but does not seem to be. I also hope by then there will be some bug-free DVD players with DVI output and the HDTivo DiecTv. I suppose that is too much to hope for, but I think that is what we live on here.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Xavier
Sony LCOS is on sale at Goodguys in bellevue for ~ $3600. That is when I came to know such a thing exists.

They told me Sony is discontinuing this model and that is why it is on sale.

It is a 3 chip LCOS RP TV.
I sure hope the retailer didn't tell you this. Sony does NOT make a 3-chip LCOS RPTV. They have a line of 3-chip LCD RPTVs, which is entirely different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
How about

RCA Scenium 50" HDTV

16:9 LCOS Projection Television

?


Are they good? Costco has them.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Xavier
How about

RCA Scenium 50" HDTV

16:9 LCOS Projection Television

?


Are they good? Costco has them.
Unfortunately they are quite the opposite of good.

I think the general consensus around here is run,

don't walk, in the exact opposite direction of this set

lest you become overwhelmed by the terrible stench

of failure emanating from this orphaned product.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The TV the goodguys sales person was talking about is

Sony KF50XBR800 50 in. Standard Television

and it is a LCD tv not LCOS so he must have been on drugs.
 

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FYI- Re: Purple tint


This just in on the Cineos thread....


[qoute]

The latest I've heard from Philips...


The purple tint issue is the result of a software or firmware problem and is not a difficult one to fix. Currently all of the sets in the Knoxville warehouse are being fixed. Priority in fixes goes to customers who already have sets and are having issues with it and any stores that have one on display ( to my knowledge there aren't many). [/quote]


Read the rest of the post here.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...47#post2715347


Barry
 
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