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"Is the woofer element in this design even feaseble?" yes.


easy to get right? no.


lots of folks that might be able to help you? yes.


should you backup and talk about your goals a little bit as a first step? yes.
 

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poke around a little bit and you will find many horn loaded mains. do a search on "no quarters" or "econowave" and you will see some interesting projects that may be up your alley. it is not really necessary to use a horn loaded woofer for the midrange. a good pro audio woofer is ~97db 1w1m sensitive, so with 100 watts you will be up near an ear bleeding 117db.


and welcome to diy @ avs!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks guys, I just thought that visually that could make for a really interesting cabinet design and didn't think much beyond that. I was curious if you could point me to a all encompassing article on speaker design. Most of the stuff I found when looking around doesn't explain to me how to bring a vision of mine to reality but rather how to build a look alike or kit someone else has.


Again thanks.
 

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that is because it is really not a trivial task to do what you are talking about.


designing a good speaker from the ground up is like of like designing an engine for a car from the ground up. are you sure that is really what you want to do?


if so, start with the loudspeaker design cookbook by dickason and dig into the journal aes papers as well as the jbl white paper technical library. i'd suggest starting with the older papers and working your way forward that way you will begin to see the evolution in the thinking of speaker design. of course, anything by klipsch would be worth reading as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaziechameleon /forum/post/19610468


Thanks guys, I just thought that visually that could make for a really interesting cabinet design and didn't think much beyond that. I was curious if you could point me to a all encompassing article on speaker design. Most of the stuff I found when looking around doesn't explain to me how to bring a vision of mine to reality but rather how to build a look alike or kit someone else has.


Again thanks.

You're going to hard pressed to find an all encompassing article. You might find about a dozen books that are around 500-1000 pgs each that just MIGHT start getting somewhere in the general vicinity of all encompassing.......
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Exciting.


I had a thought of how I might break this down to be easier. If I could issolate the respective internal areas(woofer vs upper mid and tweat) and confine them to proven internal dimensions than the issue of tunning the internal space might be simplified. I'll post up some more images of my thoughts as I get there.


Thanks guys.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 /forum/post/19610310


"Is the woofer element in this design even feaseble?" yes.


easy to get right? no.


lots of folks that might be able to help you? yes.


should you backup and talk about your goals a little bit as a first step? yes.


I guess you could say I'm not a audiophile... but rather a designer who likes the idea of making solid sounding awesome looking speakers for not to much money and without breaking my back.


Looking at the construction on that woofer design wasn't very intimidating at all but the notion of how might it be a detriment to sound was something that concerned me more. I saw the cut out in the woofer mount was smaller than the cone for one and being ignorant as I am didn't know how it would effect things since I hadn't seen a horn loudspeaker design like that(or atleast it wasn't detailed in a way I could as easily discern that it was constructed in such a way).
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I've got a Entertainment stand I built last summer with 28" H x 18" W spaces flanking the left and right, currently occupied by some 30 year old 3 piece speakers that got wet in a flood so their sound is not as vintage as it used to be. What do you guys think I should put in there, or build to put in there?


I'd like to keep the total driver costs under 200, assuming I can get a decent sound for that price.




I'm doing research and stuff but as you guys have pointed out, jesus is there alot to learn/read. So this is kind me just brainstorming with your guys valued input. Is there a Kit that would easily fit that space?
 

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http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...79#post1620779


Total cost including the 24x17 inch knock down cabinet is $190. Drivers and electronics would run $240 for a pair if you could build an equal cabinet (same size front baffle and internal volume) There are many other designs in that thread so look around some.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaziechameleon /forum/post/19610196


Ignorant novice here...




Is the woofer element in this design even feaseble?


Ok proceed to hate on my ignorance.

I know you're only linking a wiki image, but assuming that design was what you were considering, here are my thoughts at first glance.


LF: horn is too short and mouth too small so no LF response maybe under 100Hz (need to know dimensions, flare rate and driver). Will need to consider mass corner to choose appropriate driver and how to deal with upper end of range - reflectors etc.

MF: relatively deep horn, about 10-12" wide (assuming 15" woof) so nothing below maybe 1khz so potential hole between LF and MF sections.

HF: don't like lateral placement beside MF and not with wide axis vertical. Weird polars will result.


Go and read Erik's site especially the Midbass horn section and the link to AA at the end of the second paragraph there. His experience and mine paralleled a lot through that period as I developed my own front loaded horn system on the early 00's. At one stage I used his EVM12L midbass design, but my choices moved in different design elements. Mine were destroyed a few years ago as I moved into smaller digs in the city and couldn't afford the space required for such a massive system (physically).


Once you have a better idea of what you want/need, download Hornresp and start the steep learning curve for the program.


For a novice though, I'd strongly recommend the Ewave designs linked earlier. I would not go back to a traditional full range front loaded horn system again, as I feel the design challenges and compromises are too great.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kaziechameleon /forum/post/19610196


Sorry I don't know how to imbed images in posts, and tried my best.

Open photobucket account and upload image. One option give in the Share/Copy drop down for each loaded image is IMG code which will be {IMG} http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee287/A9X-308/Unity/PA220044.jpg{/IMG }
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
@AX9-308


I know its a wiki link, I saw it when reading around and it peaked my interest due to its unique design. I didn't realize there would be such a gap low to mid range. If I built that I'd probably forgo a mid horn seeing as its more trouble than its worth.


Ok, so I have probably the most novice question ever. My amp or reciever thingy is kinda going(ist already almost 30-40 years old), it got wet to and it splices all the inputs together, so if you have sound from the ps3 and the CD player you hear both while you are on the FM tuner. As such I think its more pertinent to spend my money at the moment on a new reciever or HT reciever.


Having been working on this one for a while I came across this one from pioneer

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-11...1839745&sr=8-1


I know that this might qualify as slighty off topic but would that handle a speaker like the one that BIGmouthinDC posted? They say the reported wattage on drivers and recievers is never acurate so I felt compeled to inquire. If you think it will get the job done I'll pull the trigger this week.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Ok, I'm gonna sound baseless and misguided but I wanna have it all. If I'd like to start as a 2 channel and slowly build out to 7.1. I also need it to strip out audio from my HDMI inputs right now my xbox and wii and pc put audio over the HDMI cable straight into the TV and those speakers really hurt the ears. I was thinking this HT reciever would maybe allow me to expand (seeing as I don't plan on buying a new one for another decade atleast.)


Is this a terribly misguided approach?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaziechameleon /forum/post/19615379


@AX9-308


I know its a wiki link, I saw it when reading around and it peaked my interest due to its unique design. I didn't realize there would be such a gap low to mid range. If I built that I'd probably forgo a mid horn seeing as its more trouble than its worth.

The type of design isn't really unique, but horns aren't used much in domestic systems. They are very hard to get right and easy to get wrong. Go with one of the Ewave designs and if the bug for more bites later, keep reading and learning and look at big horn systems then. But the size, cost and complexity can get out of hand quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaziechameleon /forum/post/19615379


Ok, so I have probably the most novice question ever. My amp or reciever thingy is kinda going(ist already almost 30-40 years old), it got wet to and it splices all the inputs together, so if you have sound from the ps3 and the CD player you hear both while you are on the FM tuner. As such I think its more pertinent to spend my money at the moment on a new reciever or HT reciever.


Having been working on this one for a while I came across this one from pioneer

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-VSX-11...1839745&sr=8-1
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaziechameleon /forum/post/19616039


I know that this might qualify as slighty off topic but would that handle a speaker like the one that BIGmouthinDC posted? They say the reported wattage on drivers and recievers is never acurate so I felt compeled to inquire. If you think it will get the job done I'll pull the trigger this week.

I have an old VSX1015 that drives a similar (vintage) speaker to uncomfortable and complaint making levels in my apartment. So I would guess, yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaziechameleon /forum/post/19616039


Ok, I'm gonna sound baseless and misguided but I wanna have it all. If I'd like to start as a 2 channel and slowly build out to 7.1. I also need it to strip out audio from my HDMI inputs right now my xbox and wii and pc put audio over the HDMI cable straight into the TV and those speakers really hurt the ears. I was thinking this HT reciever would maybe allow me to expand (seeing as I don't plan on buying a new one for another decade atleast.)


Is this a terribly misguided approach?

Not at all.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I've been on DIY forums for projects before, everything from building my own sump system for my aquariums to DIY computer builds and this is deffinately by far the most welcoming community I've encountered.


@A9X-308


I may abandon horns then. I thought for some reason that a base horn for the woofer like the one in the initial post wouldn't be a difficult thing, I was so wrong.


Ok, I'm in the middle of rebuilding my computer right now, soon as I have that ironed out I'm gonna order myself that reciever. In the months between now and when I can actually work outside confortably(MDF makes such a mess I hate to work on it in the garage) I'll keep bothering you guys with my questions and ideas till I can work out a solid design and or solution.


I do find comfort in the fact that certain aspects of speaker building look way easier than initially percieved. In the end it is all fuzzy theory till I get to chopping, glueing, and listening to a actual build of mine but I think I'm wrapping my head around it. The cross over part is still the most difficult for me to get, second is some of the different cabinet accustics I see people implimenting, its not just the length of the tunning port ya know.


This is awesome, thanks again for all the helpfull feed back.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wrager /forum/post/19620517


You could easily replicate one of the JBL cinema systems like the 4622.

True but that is just a big Ewave type and much easier than a full range FLH system.
 
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