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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read on the "DILA -when is it too good?" thread that at least one person is running the G-11 with a progressive scan DVD player only, and the unit is not calibrated. He reported that he is pleased with the picture.


I cannot use a DLP, because I am senstive to rainbows. I currently have a PLV-60 on 14-day trial which I like very much, except that I can see the screen door effect at my seating position. (I hope to try to eliminate this with an IMX Processor before the trial period ends, but Cygnus Imaging seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.) Thus, I am keeping an open mind about the JVC G-15. I do not want to use an HTPC, however, and I would prefer to avoid adding an external scaler, and perhaps even calibration for a time, as when you add the cost of these things to the price of the G-15, it's just not worth it IMO. In other words, for an extra $3K, I'd look at a projector with less pixelization than the PLV-60 if the picture is otherwise comparable, but I would keep the PLV-60 if it meant paying $5K + more.


Anyway, this is long way of asking for comments about how the JVC DILA's look just hooked up to a progressive DVD player. I assume the pixelization is not an issue, right? What is the picture quality in general, and what are the deficiencies, if any, to an out-of-the-box unit? How does the picture compare to the 10HT or decent DLP?


Also, re the infamous noise, I could put the DILA about 9 feet in back of my seating position. Is this far enough that you don't need a hushbox, or would I still need one?
 

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Smitty,


trust only your eyes. go get a demo
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's easier said then done. I don't know any dealer around my area that has the G-15. And I would have to find someone who is running it, or would be willing to run it, with out a scaler, etc. That's why many of us rely on the comments of others on the forum, as it is hard to find certain projectors locally.
 

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Smitty,


You don't say where you are. If it's SF bay area, send me email.


Wm
 

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How good is an uncalibrated G-15? I too hope to find out soon, Smitty, as I wonder if I should trade-in my Richard Martin-calibrated G-11 for a Dilard calibrated G-15, before AVS' trade-in program is over (if it's not already...)


Good luck...(I think Dean McManis among others would not mind demoing his plush E-Cinema for you http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/wink.gif I'm not sure how long a drive that is for you. I believe he lives in San Jose or thereabouts)


Luca


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PICTURES OF MY THEATER
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Smitty:


Calibration is an extra bonus, not neccessary for a still excellent picture.


I haven't seen a D-ILA hooked up to anything other than an HTPC, but I have heard others say (who should know), that it still looks great with a progressive DVD player. The scaler is only supposed to be lacking in its deinterlacing, but upscaling progressive output is supposed to be fine.


- Dave
 

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Smitty,


A few things to think about:
  • The projector comes calibrated from the factory...only it is calibrated for maximum light output (for business presentations) and not for home theater. An examination of the Gamma (for one) on different from-the-factory projectors will reveal that thay have, indeed, been set-up at the factory and will be slightly different.
  • If you want to see all sorts of projectors, see if you can make it to Infocomm next week. I think that you can get free tickets...all you need is the time off.
  • I was up-and-running within 10 minutes of getting the projector. It looks fantastic, right out of the box. All of the tweaks are add-ons...for later...when you are ready to "upgrade" to the next level.
  • The better you feed it, the better it does...wait until you get a chance to see direct-digital transfer DVD (Toy Story, Bugs Life) or HDTV 1080i. Wow!


Anyway, it's easy to get overwhelmed with all these experts and their fancy-shmancy stuff (yes, myself included). Don't feel like you need to do all that stuff right off (or ever).


Remember...the important thing is that this is a really, really fun, enjoyable hobby! Having a picture worthy of bragging rights is part of the fun, but that is where you can get hung up (yes, again, myself included).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Mark, I was hoping you'd reply given your expertise with the DILA's. So if I read you right it sounds like the picture would be darn good just hooked up to my progressive DVD player. Can you tell me what the addition of an outboard scaler and calibration will do, i.e., what is the nature of the improvements that will result to the picture?


Also, what are your thoughts on the noise/heat issue. I believe Projector Central said that the G-11 would heat up a small home theater. My room has a vaulted ceiling, and is 16 feet wide and about 22 feet deep (except on one side where a wall juts in about 16 feet back). If the G-15 is placed at the back of the room, will the heat and the noise be noticeable from 9 feet away at the seating position? I have read about people pumping the "exhaust" outside or into the attic, which I cannot do given where the projector would be located. How important is this?
 

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I believe Tom Stites indicated on this forum that soon-to-be-released models will be more home-theater friendly in terms of the heat and noise problems. At this point, it would seem best to wait until JVC announces them (presumably at InfoComm).


- Marc
 

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Smitty,


A few more things:


- Are you planning on using a 16:9 screen? If so, then progressive

scan might not work for you. This was described in a thread that

is referenced on the D-ILA FAQ thread, but which is unfortunately

expired. It had something to do with the fact that there is only

one 480p memory to modify. Mark Hunter might be able to expound.


- Apparently not all so-called progressive scan DVD players have 3:2

pulldown detection (see http://www.hometheatermag.com/showarchives.cgi?69:1)

You will definitely see motion artifacts without it.


- As for the noise issue it's very subjective. I've been planning

on starting to build a hushbox for at least six months now. It is

going to happen eventually, but I've lived without it for almost a

year now. My G11 is only about 6 feet back from the seats. There

is no wall behind it, however, so that may help. We have two dogs

who often decide to chew their Nylabones right in front of us

during a movie, and that pretty much drowns out the fan noise.

I'll probably confiscate the bones at movie time once the hushbox

is built.


Chris
 

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Smitty,


How wide is your screen and how far back are you viewing it? I'm also sensitive to the screen door effect but would consider the PLV60 if I didn't notice it at my viewing distance.


My recollection of the JVC is that it was quite good out of the box. Zero screen door at normal viewing distances and acceptable picture quality on HDTV.


But the G15 is loud - I think a hushbox is necessary for most people. I haven't seen the G11, but the G15 may be noisier if I'm not mistaken.


- Chi

 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Chi, I'm sitting back about 12-13' feet from a 96" x 54" screen. My sense is that it would probably not be noticeable to most people, but I notice it. The more I watch the projector, though, the less it bothers me. My belief is that an IMX Processor would eliminate it entirely, leaving a very smooth picture. But even without the IMX, it is still very watchable; it's just a question of how picky one is.
 

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Smitty,


Thanks for the reply. That was exactly what another person had stated in another forum - 8' screen sitting 13' back and they noticed the screen door as well. I've been called picky more than once, so it looks like I'll have to pass on this projector.


For what it's worth, you may wish to consider a Sanyo XP21N with a Panamorph if the screen door is marginal on the PLV60. It should sufficiently reduce the horizontal line structure though it won't do anything for the vertical.


I did manage to try the IMX processor with the XP21N. If I could have gotten the alignment right, it would have done the job. However, the IMX I received was either defective or I didn't have the right touch to align it across the entire screen.


Chi
 

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Smitty,

Here’s my 2 cents and a little history. I was trying to decide on a projector to replace my 4 year old Sharp S55U LCD. I finally selected the JVC G11 (similar to the G15) and purchased it used about 2 months ago, after originally considering the NEC 135 CRT. One of the concerns regarding a CRT purchase was the weight, size, adjustments and fan noise level. After Exhaustive research on this forum and exemplary help from it’s members, I was able to find a used G11. The G11 eliminated all the CRT concerns except one, Fan Noise.


Right form the onset the unit has worked flawlessly and no dead pixels seem to be evident, a real consideration when purchasing any fixed element projector. The picture especially in HD (I get HBO and Showtime from Dish Network) especially in well lit outside scenes is outstanding and very three dimensional. The internal scaler IMO is very poor and almost unwatchable. I purchased next a Crystal Image Scaler. I lived with that for three weeks and finally sent it back to AVS. The DVD processing was quite good but that was where it ended. Most of the other sources fed into it like LD, VCR, Large and small dish SD video and cable, the CI wasn’t very good. I opted to get an HTPC from AVS and am expecting it to arrive today or tomorrow. It has a TV tuner in it plus Video inputs and supposedly a drop dead DVD image. By the way dealing with Brian Feldman of BT Technologies, the person that builds the HTPC’s for AVS has been a VERY pleasing experience. I also built and installed a home grown filtered hush box. I have a Lexicon MC-1 based HT system and wanted a projector that was quiet enough that I could hear the detail in my HT audio system. Granted, a person could live with the fan noise but for me it wasn’t something I wanted to do. I also wanted to filter the air going into it as I have a somewhat dusty environment (all exposed wood in a Log Home). My room is 24’ X 16’ with a cathedral ceiling. After having the G11 on for approximately 3 hours, I do notice a slight increase in room temperature.


PROS:

Great picture

Ease of use


CONS:

Loud fans

Expensive to operate (1000 xenon hour bulb at aprox $700 to replace)

Puts out a fair amount of heat.


You have to weigh all pros and cons (I had many sleepless nights trying to make a decision) in regards to the projector that suited my needs the best. One thing I learned during this process is that there isn’t a perfect projector that fits every ones exact requirements. However, picture quality is priority #1 and the G11 delivers this with aplomb. I Have a fried that just received the DWIN DLP Transvission projector. It has a nice picture and is very quiet. For the same price as the G15 you might want to consider that unit, although I don’t think the image quality IMO is quite as good as the DILA.


Don



[This message has been edited by anderdea (edited 06-07-2001).]
 

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Chi & Smitty,


Don's post (above) is an extremely fair and accurate assessment of the state of affairs. You should read his post (twice) to understand all of the factors involved.


He nails all of the pros and cons perfectly, and although they have been stated before, his post expresses the best and worst in a way that is not protective of his investment. Many people get a little...protective of their decision after shopping for 6 months and tend to defend their choise. Don states the facts very well without this bias.


By the way, Chi...I might be mistaken, but were you saying that screen door was an issue with the D-ILA? And that an LCD might fix it??? http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
 

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Hi Mark,


Have you achieved pleasing results with the G-15 you got in calibrating its contrast level with your Dilard s/w? I have a RB Martin calibrated G-11 and was thinking of trading up to a G-15 through AVS, but have not messed yed with your Black Wizard. If I understand things correctly, there was more to RBM calibration than just adjusting white levels, as in quarter plates, voltages, gamma...etc...


I am very satisfied with the calibration in my projector, but would like to trade up because I think I can use the extra lumens. Can you give your personal input on whether it is currently possible to achieve RBM calibration levels with your current software alone, or is a light probe likely needed to achieve this (along with any upcoming updates to your Dilard?


Thanks for your time,


Luca


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PICTURES OF MY THEATER
albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1659592&a=12715694&f=0
 

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Smitty,

I can't comment about the Sanyo or a D-ILA as I haven't seen either. But I have seen the IMX on a 10 HT, and IMO it does an absolutely fantastic job! I've done a test with the lens on and off the same projector. It really makes the projector much more film like. I didn't measure, but with a 100" screen, I needed to get within 5 or 6 feet to detect any pixels. And that was when looking for them.


Looking forward to your further observations about the Sanyo. I'm considering that one too.

Pip
 

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Luca,


The Dilard Black Level Wizard does it's job, but should really be paired with the (non-existant) gamma wizard for best results.


Dilard can't today do a Richard Martin level calibration, but that is certainly the model for software development. Yes, to get that level of quality, a colorimeter will certainly need to be rented or purchased and used during the calibration. The software will do all the work, but the colorimeter will make sure that it's perfect.
 

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I have fed my G15 a 480p image and it looked very good. Not as good as through my HTPC, but it was very good.


My eyeballs are 10.5' from my 96x54" GrayHawk screen I cant see the screen door at all. It seems to completely dissapear at 5'-7' depending on the brightness of the image.


I saw a g11 the other day being fed by a Progressive scan DVD player. It looked pretty good, but I was at least 12'-14' back.


Hope this helps.


Cameron


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-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --
 
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