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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey all,


I've been debating for the longest time between the Panny V10 and the Sammy 860. Originally, I was set dead on the V10 until the Shootout at the end of June. Many people at the shoutout clearly said that the 860 had a better PQ due to its color accuracy. Is the difference that noticeable once each set is fully calibrated? Or is it only noticeable through high-tech color equipment?


I understand most people will say: Go to a store and choose the one that looks best to you. But that is impossible where I'm from since the V10 is in one store and the 860 is in another store, so side-by-side comparison is impossible.


Thank you,
 

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ill put it to you this way. i had a 50ph9uk monitor and upgraded to a pioneer 600m. with that upgrade i got both better black levels and color accuracy. and to tell you the truth they both have an equal impact. color accuracy has everything to do with the capability of the set. and alot of times it comes damn close out of the box. black levels in your situation are a little more passive as the black levels on both of the sets mentioned would be classified as good enough but not near kuro levels. if you havent invested the time already, look into getting a pio monitor. they are atleast the same price or cheaper. if your sticking to your guns id go with the sammy for the reasons stated above.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thank you whityfrd,


I guess the thread title is a bit misleading. I understand that color accuracy is extremely important. I guess my question is more like: How important is the DIFFERENCE between the V10 and the 860 color accuracy? Will it be obvious or suttle and only recognizable by experts or specialized equipment?


I understand that Pio makes the best displays but the 500m is not available in Canada and the 600M is out of my budget. So right now it's between the V10 and 860.


Thanks again!
 

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I think you're missing the point when comparing sets. The important point is that the set's color decoding be pleasing to you.


Samsung sets tend to make greens look neon to me, but they sell more sets than anybody else. When projection sets were "in" JVC's DLIA sets delivered very accurate color, but looked pretty washed out compared to other brands.


If you have looked at both sets and don't see an appreciable difference in the color of either set, that is not a deciding factor for you between the two.


Selecting a TV is not rocket science. Don't make it harder than it needs to be.
 

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You didn't tell us whether or not you will have the B860 or the V10 calibrated. That could make quite a difference. Do you want a comparison of out of the box, and then the Samsung dropped into movie mode, and the V10 into THX mode, or something else? The V10 in THX mode is rather dim, so many might not find it useful for them, and would prefer custom mode, which can deliver more than enough light output.


In fact, in night mode, the calibrator choose to run the V10 at this year's shootout in THX mode, at a dim 25 fL, compared to ~35 fL for the rest. If you want to be technical, the LG LED was also a little low at 32.5 fL.


So I wouldn't put too much weight in the voting on the shootout results, since the V10 was crippled next to the other displays in its dim THX mode, nearly 10 fL lower than most all the others. I think the V10 would have fared better if like all the other displays, the V10 were putting out an equal 35 ftL.


When people evaluate displays side by side (like at the shootout), they naturally tend to prefer the display which is brighter, especially if it's not overly bright compared to the dimmer display right next to it. The 35 fL the various displays were calibrated to produce at peak light output is not overly bright at all, (many people prefer 40) but most everyone would agree that the 25 fL the V10 was set at would be rather dim.


So it's not surprising for us to learn that some of the attendees thought the Pioneer, Samsung, etc. had more "pop" and a more "life-like" image. That could partially be explained as a result of those displays being calibrated to output 10fL more light at peak output.
 

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Color accuracy and color decoding are very important. My panny pz85 has some pretty bad red push so I have to dial down the color to make it less noticeable. The side effect, though, is that my colors have less "pop".
 

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I would also like to add that many people downplay the difference in blacks between the Panasonic V10 and the Samsung B860, trying to say they are really not that far apart, and most people wouldn't really notice or care that much. Well the exact same thing could be said about the colors. Perhaps some exaggerate the differences in color between the Samsung and the Panasonics. The colors are better in my opinion on the Samsungs than on the Panasonic, and the numbers bear this out, but then one should easily be able to notice the superiority in black levels on the Panasonics which the numbers bear out as well.


I know for myself personally, I have no trouble seeing the darker blacks on the Pansonics compared to the Samsungs, but then I also notice the better colors the Samsung gives vs. the Panasonics. But then it's not like I get to compare a calibrated Samsung next to a calibrated Panasonic every day. The best I can do is adjust the settings as close as possbile to make the comparison fair, and then in addition to this, rely on the opinion of those who have access to both displays side by side, fully calibrated. So it depends on whether or not you will have your sets calibrated or not.


I can tell you that most of the public would not find the colors on the V10 all that objectionable, but would like them just fine, especially if they did not have something else better right beside it to compare to. But then most of the public is not well educated about the importance of black levels, and probably wouldn't notice the difference either, especially if they were not side by side.


AVS forum member and ISF calibrator Chad B. did a review of the V10, and also had a Samsung to compare it to, and he said he "felt the color looked a bit overdone." But he also noted, "However, some people will prefer the hotter colors of the V10. The hotter color, along with the higher contrast ratio, made the V10 look very punchy."


So you see, there are real differences, but as to which anyone would prefer, it's all in the eye of the beholder.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Thank you DocuMaker for your input!!! To answer your question, yes I do plan to have my set calibrated. I think your comments have convinced me to go the V10 way. I always wanted to get the V10 for the 24p and size (54") and overall quality. Then came along the shootout, which kinda threw me off since I was expecting the V10 to finish second. But your remark about the V10 being in THX mode at the shootout convinced me on why people rated it so low in some areas.


On the other hand, Samsung seems to have plenty of quality issues: buzzing and 24p issues... and the 860 doesn't come in 54" (50" is too small and 58 is too expensive).


I guess I simply wanted to hear that the difference in color accuracy did not outweigh all the advantages (in my opinion) of the V10.


So V10 it is!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5_against_1 /forum/post/16949769


On the other hand, Samsung seems to have plenty of quality issues: buzzing and 24p issues... and the 860 doesn't come in 54" (50" is too small and 58 is too expensive).


I guess I simply wanted to hear that the difference in color accuracy did not outweigh all the advantages (in my opinion) of the V10.


So V10 it is!

Quality issues? I guess because most Sammy guys like myself don't make it a point to go in every Panny or Kuro thread and link to a problem thread for that respective brand like you see in the Sammy threads from the haters, one assumes the Sammies are problem units. It would be real easy to play that game if you just look at the first few pages in this forum.

You are no more likely to experience a problem with Samsung than you are from a Panasonic, PERIOD!


As for color accuracy, that is my #1 criteria. That is why I chose and still prefer Samsung in this area.
 

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Not so fast 5.


If your viewing room is dark then I think the Panasonic might best bet because it has somewhat better black levels.



For bright environments or rooms with uncontrolled lighting or if you like watching with the lights on...the Samsung may be the better choice.

Why? Because it has a better anti-glare filter than Panasonic's and it has been observed to look better in lighter rooms.


JMHO


Nolanski departing the fix.....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul /forum/post/16951088


Quality issues? I guess because most Sammy guys like myself don't make it a point to go in every Panny or Kuro thread and link to a problem thread for that respective brand like you see in the Sammy threads from the haters, one assumes the Sammies are problem units. It would be real easy to play that game if you just look at the first few pages in this forum.

You are no more likely to experience a problem with Samsung than you are from a Panasonic, PERIOD!


As for color accuracy, that is my #1 criteria. That is why I chose and still prefer Samsung in this area.

Ask Paul about his experience with quality issues.


I own a Samsung.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5_against_1 /forum/post/16949769


Thank you DocuMaker for your input!!! To answer your question, yes I do plan to have my set calibrated. I think your comments have convinced me to go the V10 way. I always wanted to get the V10 for the 24p and size (54") and overall quality. Then came along the shootout, which kinda threw me off since I was expecting the V10 to finish second. But your remark about the V10 being in THX mode at the shootout convinced me on why people rated it so low in some areas.


On the other hand, Samsung seems to have plenty of quality issues: buzzing and 24p issues... and the 860 doesn't come in 54" (50" is too small and 58 is too expensive).


I guess I simply wanted to hear that the difference in color accuracy did not outweigh all the advantages (in my opinion) of the V10.


So V10 it is!

The size issue shows why you can't always get hung up on the numbers. Many people might look at those two sets -- even perfectly calibrated -- and choose the 54" over a 50" because it's bigger.


All the measurements in the world don't change the fact that our perceptions are subjective. You may know that a Samsung has more accurate colors, and that may influence your opinion of the set, but size, features, design, glare, and many other things may do so as well. Even when we make a conscious effort to rely on data for our decision-making, subtle subjective influences almost always creep in.


The bottom line is to not stress too much and to look at this input as your guide, not the 10 Commandments of Television Purchasing. I did a lot of research and ultimately picked a V10 for a number of reasons, and I am really happy with my set. I am also sure I would have been quite happy with a Samsung. Figure out what's important to you, and use this information to determine which set fulfills those requirements the best. You'll certainly have positives and negatives for both, but either way, you'll be coming home with a high quality display.


Have fun.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brando70 /forum/post/16951693


snip


all the measurements in the world don't change the fact that our perceptions are subjective. You may know that a samsung has more accurate colors, and that may influence your opinion of the set, but size, features, design, glare, and many other things may do so as well. Even when we make a conscious effort to rely on data for our decision-making, subtle subjective influences almost always creep in.


The bottom line is to not stress too much and to look at this input as your guide, not the 10 commandments of television purchasing. I did a lot of research and ultimately picked a v10 for a number of reasons, and i am really happy with my set. I am also sure i would have been quite happy with a samsung. Figure out what's important to you, and use this information to determine which set fulfills those requirements the best. You'll certainly have positives and negatives for both, but either way, you'll be coming home with a high quality display.


Have fun.

+1
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brando70 /forum/post/16951693


The size issue shows why you can't always get hung up on the numbers. Many people might look at those two sets -- even perfectly calibrated -- and choose the 54" over a 50" because it's bigger.


All the measurements in the world don't change the fact that our perceptions are subjective. You may know that a Samsung has more accurate colors, and that may influence your opinion of the set, but size, features, design, glare, and many other things may do so as well. Even when we make a conscious effort to rely on data for our decision-making, subtle subjective influences almost always creep in.


The bottom line is to not stress too much and to look at this input as your guide, not the 10 Commandments of Television Purchasing. I did a lot of research and ultimately picked a V10 for a number of reasons, and I am really happy with my set. I am also sure I would have been quite happy with a Samsung. Figure out what's important to you, and use this information to determine which set fulfills those requirements the best. You'll certainly have positives and negatives for both, but either way, you'll be coming home with a high quality display.


Have fun.

Why can't all posts be like this? Perfect advice!
 
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