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How important is the size of the Left and Right Speakers for Home Theater use?

4K views 68 replies 22 participants last post by  gajCA 
#1 ·
Well, I tried asking this yesterday and made the mistake of asking about surround speakers instead of saying the left and right speakers that sit on either side of the center channel speaker. So here I am asking again. Does the size of the towers that I choose make a difference if it's purely for a 5.1.2 that will be used 100% for Movies and Games? I'm trying to go with Elac Debut 2.0 (although many have recommended a different sub which is another topic and something I need to research now - suggestions are helpful though if you have any!) But, I'm wondering if it would be ok if I went with the smaller DF52's instead of the bigger DF62's?

I've also heard many people like to use bookshelfs instead of towers but can a smaller bookshelf speaker really be better than a bigger floorstanding or tower speaker for Home Theater use?

Any recommendations on speakers would be greatly appreciated as well. I'm looking at trying to stick around the price of the Elac Debut 2.0 series speakers. I've also been looking at Emotiva speakers...mostly because the C2+ center speaker is huge and looks promising! So any suggestions help! Thanks in advance!
 
#2 ·
As long as you have a good sub (or two) there's nothing wrong with using bookshelf speakers for HT. Personally, I'd look for bookshelf speakers with a 1" dome tweeter*, a 5-1/2" or larger woofer and extension down to ~60Hz.
__________
(*Unless you're looking at compression drivers (e.g., Klipsch or PSA) or ribbon tweeters (e.g., Chane or Emotiva).)
 
#3 ·
The size is typically not important because for a great HT you need a great subwoofer. If you have a great subwoofer, your crossover settings are going to be 80Hz or higher for many folks. Bookshelves can produce these frequencies as well as towers for the most part. There should be very little sound difference between the two.



IMO, towers for L/R make a bit more sense for music lovers. I don't see any point in towers for home theater other than looks and/or you just can't find a bookshelf mounting method you like.


When I started to build my new system earlier this year I wanted to do all bookshelf speakers. I could never find any bookshelf stands that I thought would hold up to my 3 kids running around the entertainment room all the time. It appeared all the stands would be knocked over too easy. I didn't want to wall-mount my front L/R bookshelves because the studs weren't in a perfectly symmetrical location. Because of this and a fantastic sale on my S55 towers I ended up with towers despite initially wanting bookshelves. This also worked out well for me as I went without a sub for a few months. I really enjoyed the towers during this time.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
It depends. Speaking specifically about "full range" speakers, size (volume) is a result of the design/performance parameters. In general terms, larger volumes (size) of most box designs are required to achieve the desired frequency response the designer wants to get from the drivers being used, but overall size of a speaker is not based on just that...generally the more drivers, the larger the box. There are lots of really good high end 2 way bookshelf designs that outperform larger speakers especially in regards to soundstage accuracy, but in general (but not always) it's easier to design higher efficiency and louder volumes into larger drivers and boxes. So in short, speaker size is not a function of the room size, YET what and how we hear any speaker regardless of it's size is greatly affected by the listening room. Learning a little about interpreting basic speaker spec's, such as frequency response, efficiency, and their sustained output levels will provide some insights but realty is a well designed high end bookshelf can provide better room response in a given room as compared to many speakers that are much larger. I cannot overemphasize how understanding what makes a good listening room and proper speaker placement has on speaker performance. Likewise poor input/source/playback equipment/ and amplification can also make a good speaker (large or small) sound terrible. So back to my opening sentence, it depends. You asked a good question that illustrates exactly why it's so important to listen to speakers in your intended room because each and every speaker will sound different to some varying degree in different rooms.
 
#5 ·
The ELAC 6.2 bookshelf is about $250/pr on Amazon right now, but you'd still need to get speaker stands which will run at least $100/pr for decent steel ones, so you'd be at $350 all in. Well, for an extra $50 you can get the Emotiva T Zeros and not worry about stands, plus you have two woofers instead of one.
https://emotiva.com/collections/loudspeakers/products/airmotiv-t0-pair

They are an amazing bargain for quality towers that cost about the same as a good pair of bookshelves plus stands.

See attached photo for how they look together with the C2.
 

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#9 ·
IMO speaker size is really only determined by the distance you sit from your system. The subwoofer is really the only speaker you need to consider the total amount of cubic space.
 
#13 ·
IMO speaker size is really only determined by the distance you sit from your system.
Not if you want realistic dynamics and dynamic range, clean. Then you still need to move a fair amount of air from midbass up. Small speakers all sound constipated to me.



The subwoofer is really the only speaker you need to consider the total amount of cubic space.
Mount them nearfield and the room volume is irrelevant.
 
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#15 ·
I notice a difference in the scale of my two tower setups. Might be components and other room dynamics, but size of speaker and specifically, size of the drivers, does tend to increase scale of presentation. Maybe that’s not quality and maybe there’s a comparison that does not matter (like over 6” drivers?) but I like a big tower...

YMMV
 
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#25 ·
#26 ·
For those demanding theater level dynamics in a larger room with a fair distance from the speakers size indeed does matter.

For most home environments where you are sitting 10-15 feet away and want volume levels that are quite loud, loud enough that you are worried what your neighbors might think but not theater levels of volume options are wider.

My first 5.1 system was in the mid 80s anchored by a then state of the art 15" sealed servo subwoofer, 2 way bookshelves with 6" woofers were plenty.

I think the center was a 2 say with a 5.25" main driver; it was a powered NAD bookshelf laid on its side.

In that same room today, which is my secondary room, I'm doing 3.2 with 5.25" 2 say bookshelves and a dual 4" center with two small 8" subs and at 10 feet it gets louder than I need it to.

In my main room at 15 feet 2 way towers with a single 7" main driver, center has dual 7" main drivers, crossed over to a 15" sealed servo sub and it again gets louder than I need.

In decades of having folks watch movies with us never once has there been a request for more volume the speakers couldn't fulfill.

Would an Elac Debut or Emotiva system with a good subwoofer in the mix satisfy your need?

If you are in the second group, which most of us in this section of AVS seem to be with a few exceptions, then yes.

Keep in mind that 2/3 of folks out there are satisfied with a puny sound bar if not the TV speakers themselves.

In my case I have the money to buy more expensive speakers, but don't bother as I'm happy with what I have and larger cabinets simply would not fit my room size here in the SF Bay Area.
 
#28 ·
I was faced with this dilemma when I first started to get back into this. I received some advice from crutchfield on my first purchase. I was contemplating floorstanders and the Klipsch RP-600 with stands to start as a 2.0. I know I’m at least adding a subwoofer and probably more. Based on advice I was given and deducted on my own for a 50-50 Ht-Music if you know you’re adding subwoofers why buy the floorstanders ? Isn’t it wasting some of the purchase price considering the 1 or 2 woofers in the floorstanders and crossover settings ? Am I wrong with that assumption? I already considered if a I am by the way the RP-600 become surround sound speakers and I will add the floorstanders !
 
#29 · (Edited)
If you have children or animals that could potentially knock a speaker off of a stand then towers are safer. I prefer the look of a tower personally because it's a uniform size in its entirety instead of a small stand with a potentially large box on top.

Edit: also if your setup is near a walkway with a lot of traffic then there is potential to bump them accidentally. I have done this to my towers more times than I can recall. Just not paying attention I suppose.
 
#31 ·
Small bookshelf speakers with a single 5" or 6" driver are not adequate for theater dynamics in any typical room. Period. Even when high-passed at 80 Hz, the speaker is still asked to produce significant energy at 60-80 Hz, and of course, all of the energy above that point. You need multiple 5" or 6" drivers in a larger cabinet to provide adequate output in the mid-bass, unless you are listening nearfield. Now of course, some people do not listen to music or movies loudly enough that this becomes an issue. Or they run a much higher cross-over to minimize the problem. But to pretend a single 5" or 6" driver can play anywhere near reference level in typical conditions is just silly.

Not sure why several posters mentioned "bookshelf + sub > tower". That's irrelevant. This is home theater question, a sub is mandatory. The relevant equation is "tower + sub > bookshelf + sub"
 
#32 ·
By the way, what frequency range is "midbass" considered to be? 200 Hz to 500 Hz?
It depends which subforum you're on. :)

In the DIY subforum where they're building a lot of low tuned monster subs, it starts lower. For everybody else, it's probably around from the high-pass point to 250ish Hz.

We all have different expectations and needs, but A9X-308's points hold.

If the OP is in the "everybody else" category, which it sounds like from the information provided, then the Emotiva towers are a great choice.
 
#38 ·
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#44 ·
I'm not sure their conclusion was the point you were trying to make but the idea that you can only listen to Romantic Comedy movies, not action movies, unless you have towers with multiple midbass/bass drivers is laughable.

From your link:

'There is absolutely NO reason why a properly set up sub/sat system can’t be every bit as good as a full range tower if you chose products that have similar output capabilities and you get the crossover frequency right."
 
#49 ·
can a smaller bookshelf speaker really be better than a bigger floorstanding or tower speaker for Home Theater use?
This entire discussion was about output, not frequency response
This thread has been distorted. Better is subjective.

I would say that a 'better' bookshelf speaker can be 'better' than a lesser quality tower, both in output, frequency response, and 'perceived' quality. How loud it can reproduce the source is not part of the original question.

this is all IMO, and YMMV.
Joseph
 
#61 ·
Back to the original post :

I had a set of 90's Morsdaunt Short speakers - 2 x MS3.50 towers, 2 x MS 3.30 standmounts (different woofer, same tweeter as 3.50) 3 x MS30 standmounts (same woofer, different tweeter as MS3.50). All of these had 8" woofers and cabinetes roughly the same size (towers were obviously taller) One of the MS30 was a Centre, the other 2 were Surround Backs. I then experimented and replaced all 7 with the same vintage MS 3.20 (smaller bookshelfs with just 5" woofer. The difference was incredible - the small bookshelf speakers sounded so much better because they were all identical. The soundfield was seamless and totally enveloping. So in this case identical bookshelf was much better than mismatched (but still very similar) towers and bookshelf combo.

However that was only at moderate levels. As soon as I went above -10 the small bookshelfs started to distort and lost clarity etc. That was with 11 identical speakers (I also had 4 heights) with most of them around 11' away in a 2600cuft room.

I have now changed to what I would call a large bookshelf or standmount - Wharfedale Pro Titan 8 PA SPeakers - again all 5 identical (have to save up for the extra 2 and I have dropped back to 5.1.4 for now) and they now play comfortably up to 0MV (and sometimes beyond!!).

But I also tried running a Behringer B215XL 15" Pa speakers as L&R and even though I could hardly tell any sonic difference when comparing them to the Titans as soon as I hooked them up with the Titans the seamless soundfield was no longer seamless. So I went back to the Titans.

So the moral to my story is that bookshelf can be better than towers as it allows you to run 5 or 7 identical speakers but you still need capable bookshelfs if you want to go loud :)

I haven't mentioned subs as I have plenty and you need the best and most number of subs that you can afford and place.
 
#67 ·
Hopefully this is helpful to the conversation regarding bookshelf vs. towers in a 100% HT environment. I'm in the same boat contemplating an upgrade. I've currently got Paradigm Studio 60 V.4 towers in the front and 20s in the back. I brought the 20s to the front next to the 60s wired on the B channel to easily switch between the two. Both speakers have identical tweeters and mid-range drivers. The 60s have an additional bass driver. They claim mid and bass drivers are 7" but they measure closer to 6". Using REW I ran a few A-B tests. Results are shown in the attached images.

In Pure Direct mode you can clearly see the 60s have more low end. 10db more at 30hz. I assume I'm getting some room gain.

The other sweeps have two subs turned on in Stereo mode. I have a pair of SVS PB-2000 Pro subs that have been meticulously positioned and equalized to the best of my novice ability. I like them crossed at 100hz because I was able to get a fairly flat response. Since your ear can't locate frequencies this low I prefer the sound originating from the subs rather than the Paradigms. I was surprised to see how similar the two different speakers measured. These sweeps are also louder than I will ever normally listen indicating the bookshelfs are plenty capable in my particular setup. The last test is with Audyssey on showing a flatter response overall.

I am no expert here. Please let me know if this comparison has holes in it. I actually determined bookshelfs were the way to go before running this test. I simply couldn't hear a discernible difference. Sure there's a small difference during critical music listening, but it's a dedicated HT.
 

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#68 ·
Good work - that's the sort of real world experience we like to hear about :cool:
 
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