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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am quite interested in purchasing an Infocus 7210 with the DC3 chip. However, I don't where to purchase it from.


Edited: Please read the rules. Do not post pricing. Thank you!
 

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Buy it online from a reputable dealer who offers the US Warranty and you should have no problems. Don't pay retail!!!!!! $4500-$4700 sounds right. You could also get an extended warranty for $200-$400.
 

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Good luck finding an online "reputable dealer who offers the US Warranty" for less than the list price. The only one I know of is Crutchfield and they want full list. All of the others selling at discount, while possibly "reputable", are listed on the InFocus site as "not authorized" - meaning NO warranty from InFocus. To me, it borders on price fixing, but that's just me. I too am building an HT (32 X 20) and want an SP7210 for the brightness to cover a 123" Firehawk in such a large space, but balk at paying $7K when the exact same machine is available at $5K.


So far, my best result has been in finding a local dealer who only does commercial work, but is an InFocus retailer and may agree to order the proj. for me at a discount. Then InFocus would have to honor the warranty. I'd prefer (and buy) one at the $4700 range you can find online, but am fearful of any warranty issues. I'll be spending another $5K on Def Tech speakers, $3K more for a Denon AVR-4806 and about $2.5 for the screen. I'd hate to spend all that money and find the projector had a warranty issue that ends up costing me double. Sorry, didn't mean to spin the thread off a little - but I'm a little peeved at InFocus just now as I go thru this process.
 

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It would help to know where you are located; there may be an authorized dealer in your area who will work with you a bit on price.


Can't fault anyone for trying to get the best price, but even at or near list price, are you going to find another projector that matches 7210's strengths?
 

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InFocus in no way encourages or engages in price fixing. They have never told an authorized dealer how much to charge for a product. Dealers are able to charge any price they want for Infocus products.


What they do do, is keep a tight rein on the distribution of their products. Authorized dealers are only allowed to sell Infocus in their areas, not on the internet. Crutchfield is the only online dealer that I know of that is authorized, althought there may be more. They can sell the 7210 for any price they want. They have chosen, on their own, to charge the full MSRP.


Infocus projectors purchased from non-authorized dealers are not warranted or supported. Without knowing where the projector came from, how it was treated, abused, etc, they don't want the risk.


Infocus doesn't want every online retailer whoring out there products at below cost like Optoma, Benq, Panasonic etc.


Why would you be peeved at Infocus? If all you want to spend is $4700, then find a projector at that price point. Go out and get an Optoma or Benq. You can hit your price point. If you want an Infocus, then pay the price. Not comparing the quality etc of brands, but look at Runco, Vidikron, Sim, Marantz, etc. They all have DC3 projectors at considerably more than Infocus. You won't be getting 50% discounts on these projectors either.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I live in Birmingham, AL. I was looking at this Hypeaudio company online. They have mixed reviews, anyone had experience with them???
 

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Sorry - end of discussion. We don't discuss specific dealers on this board.


If you want a referral to your local Infocus dealer (who is not authorized to sell online) go here.

http://infocus.links.channelintellig...7210&nRGID=372


Buy what you can afford - not what you can get the cheapest deal from a shady character. The SP7205 is the same casing with only the DC3 difference - little less brightness/contrast is all. Work your local dealer for the $300 savings and you are good. Or would your next post be where to buy the SP7205 for $3000 now that you know that?


If you want to have a discussion on why that is - search the archives as it has been discussed every month.
 

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Fletch - in my post, I said "to ME it BORDERS on price fixing", not that they actually engage in it. And I still believe it. Yes, they maintain a "tight rein" but, IMO, it is to keep the price artificially high, not to keep quality control. You only have to visit some of the (I would hope) reputable dealers advertising above this forum to find the same product for about $2000 less than the full price InFocus hopes for thru that tight rein. Are you suggesting these are somehow different units that have been "whored out or abused"? Bull, plain and simple. It's a method of keeping the price high - otherwise, how exactly did these dealers obtain these units??? From InFocus of course. They aren't stolen. As for your advice to get another brand for $4700, that simply dodges the point. I'm paying a lot of money for this and other products and don't see anything wrong with trying to obtain the best price for the same product in a legal way. I'm not averse to paying what's necessary. I'm averse to being taken advantage of and paying much more than that. If I decide I can only get an InFocus 7210 (which is what I have decided on) and have to pay a higher price than necessary, that is my decision to make and I reserve the right to do some research and be peeved at the manufacturer if I choose, based on my opinion of their policies vs. that of other manufacturers.



Kras - your comment on "buy what you can afford and not the cheapest from some shady character" is also off point and flawed reasoning. I can "afford" the full price, I simply object to inflated pricing. By your reasoning, buying it cheaper implies "shady" (the advertisers above may object to that.) You both seem to simply fall in line with InFocus' company policy of restrict internet sales to artificially hold the price high. If they truly felt that online meant "loss of quality control", they should not allow their distributors to sell to the companies above and others online. I realize the smaller B&M's are hurt by volume sales online, but Infocus can't (or shouldn't) have it both ways.


I'd be more than happy to meet them somewhere in the middle and buy local for a FAIR amount more, but I simply don't believe that a 32% dealer cost difference exists btwn the online and B&M outlets (do YOU pay that much more to InFocus to sell their stuff??) and that I should necessarily pay it. Both of you imply that those of us who want to simply pay a fair price (after some online research) are "cheap" or should buy a different brand, etc. I guess it's easier to say that to the little guy than to explain the corporate policy that seems, to me at least, to be flawed and BORDERING on price fixing like the old days of SONY TV's. Sorry, I'm not that gullible - or cheap. It simply seems wrong to me.


Ray
 

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I posted on this last month - the dealership contract specifically prohibits online selling. You may not want to call it shady - but I do - they are violating a legal contract. Maybe they have a rep that looks the other way at a local dealer with another DBA website for moving the stuff out the back door. What I can assure you is that Infocus has hired a blind web shopping service to try to catch these guys doing this. When they do they will shut them down - and you will no longer have an authorized service avenue. It takes a while to get legal proof of contract violations - combined with the some people with websites are just spoofing search engines so you hit their site so they can run a bait&switch scam on you (Most of those types are already on Infocus unauthorized list)


Price fixing is illegal. Infocus choses to require dealers that can demo and install because they think their product is higher quality than other product sold without the custom install dealer system, but that is only evident if it is shown and installed properly. Some of those dealers may have higher fixed costs than others, some dealers may be less than competent than others. I don't compete on price - I compete on quality of service - but my prices are fair - and Infocus never has (and never will as I will call my lawyer) to see an invoice to control my selling costs. They only approve my advertising so that I am not blowing out all the other dealers in town with advertised discount sales.


And since Infocus gets paid the wholesale price either way - why would they care what the dealer makes?. This is what is wrong with your whole price fixing conspiracy - Infocus is not making more money because their dealer charged full retail price! And the argument that volume is increased with online selling is not necessarily true - if it means all the local dealers drop a brand as a result. Have you ever tried to find a local dealer with a BenQ or Optoma on display for you to see and make a purchase decision?


Yes it does seem wrong to me that a person who has never even opened the boxes he is selling is willing to move them barely over cost and make it up on volume. I would be offended if that guy made even $100 for doing just that. Get yourself a reseller ID and hook up with your local Infocus distribution warehouse - and you can recoup even that $100 the online guy made off you with no work. Although it probably cost more than $100 to get the business license - but if it offends you that other people make money off you - maybe you should not buy a state business license either. Even the guy at the warehouse made some money on the box - so better figure out how to buy one projector from Infocus direct, rather than a shipping crate of projectors - because some union guy made some money off you.


And yes I do pay more to sell Infocus stuff - even if I pay the same wholesale price. I have run through a string of Infocus demos - all of which I have lost money on with eventual resale. That adds to my cost of business. I have a $1M insurance policy required by CEDIA incase a customer off their meds decides to sue. I carry all major credit cards and that cost money. I pay for warehouse freight without charging shipping to my customers. I pay for the rig I deliver it in. I pay the sales taxes and B&O taxes, and business licenses. I pay for business auto insurance so that your projector is not a total insurance loss because it was in my personal vehicle and not covered.


Yes that cost more. Gross margin is provided to dealers to cover selling expenses resulting in net margin which covers operating expenses - which results in profit margin (or not) . I am sorry if it offends you if the dealer is trying to make a living at your expense - but I am sure you have a job if you can afford to buy this stuff. Surely you are making a living at someone else's expense?


You would be much better off buying the Optoma H78DC3 as that vendor has authorized several of the AVS alliance members for you to buy online - and they use AVS as their support channel. And it is likely cheaper - yet you are getting the latest DC3.


You are getting flamed here because you mentioned a specific vendor. That is against AVS rules. This is not the AVDeals site - it is AVScience.
 

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Kras - some of that makes sense, but not all. Sorry. As for my being "flamed" here for mentioning a vendor - I did not. You are mistaking me for the first poster. I am getting flamed here simply because I want to pay a fair price and object to what I saw as InFocus playing it both ways. You say that what the vendors online are doing is illegal. Yet here they are, advertising here and everywhere openly. If Infocus is so incompetent that they can't find the offenders as easily as I can or any other shopper, they should hire a professional (I used to be one, no I don't have a job - hehe - I'm retired). :cool:


What I object to is the tone often employed (as you do here and along with fletch in the previous posts) that someone like me, shopping for a FAIR bargain is somehow tainted and mindless of the true costs of doing business. I don't know how many ways to say I'm willing to pay a FAIR price (and I realize that I personally don't determine what fair is here). I don't begrudge you or anyone the ability to make a profit and a living as you needlessly imply - let's keep the ad hominem attacks out of this and keep it fact based. You have much more inside knowledge of the business of this than I do - BUT - I find it hard to accept that so many large dealers, even those advertising/supporting this very site, are acting illegally and InFocus is having to secretly pursue them. Good grief, they list the supposed offenders on their own site! If what they are doing is illegal, trust me, InFocus would be all over them with lawyers (I come from a legal background).


As for InFocus using the "authorized only" so as to demo/install - that's just simply not true in many cases and a joke that I'm surprised you even used. Try visiting some of their own listed vendors - I have here in Maryland. Most (yes MOST) can't demo and many don't install. It is why I searched online in the first place. Honestly, I'd prefer to pay a fair amount more and get it local and installed by an expert, authorized by the manufacturer. But the reality is, that is just another excuse they use (and don't enforce by a long shot) to inflate the price and prevent discounting. Plus, I maintain - if it's so illegal HOW did these vendors obtain the equipment to sell so openly. Please. I was born at night, just not last night. :)


I don't argue with your costs, etc as a qualified dealer, but your own argument undercuts you. The "authorized" excuse is just that - an excuse, not carried through in many cases. And the fact, as you say, that all pay the same wholesale only further indicates my point. Same base price, same level of demo/install, yet a 32% price spread. I've been to too many of the "authorized dealers" around here only to learn what a joke that is. It is why I don't accept that part of the argument and simply want to find a unit at a fair price by someone who can honor the warranty and install for me. I'll pay whatever that costs (no one need suggest how to spend the money somewhere else simply because they don't like the argument or suggest another brand). Why should I pay some local guy $2000 more when he can't show me a demo and has to refer me to some other unknown for an install??? Sorry, but while your own case may be accurate and fair, it is the exception and not the norm, from what I can tell. Too bad you don't operate here on the East Coast. I'd hire someone like you in a heartbeat. But I still reject your argument in defense of InFocus in general.
 

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Kras,

some good points, but some of them dont fly.


I have recently tried to visit THREE dealers listed on Infocus's site so I could see a 7205 in action. Guess what?

Two of the "dealers" worked out of their homes and had NO demo's.

The third had a 7210 set up in the back of a van and told me it was the same as the 7205!

This is what I have to pay a premium for?


By the way, I got into an argument with one of the "dealers" because he was insisting that the 5700 was true high definition. Good thing I have this forum to get some basic facts.
 

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Infocus just cleaned up their dealer list - hopefully things get better. Even in my post I know that not every dealer is doing what they should on both ends of the system.


I did not say that AVS alliance members are illegal behaviour - let us not put words in my mouth. I said it is a contract violation and I consider that shady. What is illegal is price fixing - that is the only thing I said. And lawyers do go after contract violators.


You say you are willing to meet in the middle but suppose you did find a demoing dealer that did installs that knew his stuff. Instead of $2K off would you pay $1K off and pay $1K for install? Because to the local installing dealer - that is what meeting in the middle means. They do not sell pallete loads - and cannot afford volume discounts - they are not in the warehouse business - they are in the service business. And part of service business is supporting what they sell - and that cost money. I don't carry every Infocus model either in demos - but I have had them all at one time or another, and have been to the tradeshows. So I know what the differences are and can tell you so that you can decide the bang for the buck between the $3K and $7K price range. But it cost me time and money to gain that knowledge that you do not have - so yes I am charging you for that service - does not matter if it is a higher product price or as a service fee. (Forget about the SP4805 - not even possible for me to sell at a profit unless I sell the entire AV system design too)


What is not a fair price - is price matching someone that sold 100 other projectors that day and is willing to make $50 on the box. If you are not getting $50 of service from the local dealer that makes it worth it - then yes there is a problem with the system. I trust my customers get more than $50 of service - and I charge them way more than that in service or margin.


Buying online is fine if you can provide your own service - but if Infocus, Runco, Marantz and others have decided they want a higher end product image without online DIY freefor all - that is their right as the manufacturer. You just have the other selection of products to chose from. Any website you mention is happy to come here and defend themselves as honoring their contract - but I doubt they will as they do not want to call themselves out to Infocus. Their contract is no different than mine - if it was they would be listed along with that MSRP catalog mail order place already mentioned.


Sorry for mistaking you for the first poster -but Alan got out his mod editor and took care of the dealer post.
 

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df8401


I sure hope he was not selling SP7210 out of the back of his van. I hope he at least brought it into your house for a demo and site survey for light control, screen drop, and projector throw.


And he is right - the SP720x projector is the same. Only the TI chip inside is different - more contrast, more brightness, less motion dithering. Runco and Marantz change TI chips without even changing the model number as a running manufacturing improvement. Up to you if you want the latest greatest and be bleeding edge, or save $2K and get last years model since you know you will do the same again in a few years - but maybe there are some manufacturing tweaks you missed out on. I think the SP7210 is better factory calibrated than the SP7205 - but does not matter if you hire me as I will be tweaking both to perfection anyways. They have both models because there are both types of customers.
 

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Kras,

Thanks for the info.

I think the other poster's point got missed though.

Maker X doesnt want to honor warranties for sellers who deeply discount their models.

Then, DONT sell to them!

Thats the point. The discounters are buying the units from Maker X who is more than happy to make the sale. But then the maker X uses a lame excuse to make more money by refusing warranty work.

You dont see Marantz or Runco for deep discount sale. Why is that?

Because they dont sell to wholesalers.

Maker X does. Then wants to complain about it. But my guess is that they really love it and wont stop. However, maker X has to put on a fake front to legitamate dealers like you, and make it seem like they are trying to stop it.
 

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Marantz sells thru distribution wholesalers now. AVS sells Runco (I think that based on the AVS ad - maybe I am wrong). But neither are found in JoeCheapProjShack. Manufacturer still authorized the sale. I have no doubt if I set up CheapestMarantz.biz that I would no longer be able to order it.


Infocus has become more rigorous - and not just to pay dealers lip service. BestBuy/Magnolia in every town is why - and if they say knock off the greymarket - Infocus will. I know that Infocus has done everything I mentioned - it is not just lipservice. Is it enough to stop it? Of course not. I can find a web broker that will resell me a $100,000 Runco if I want to.


The problem is how do you prove the greymarket? I assure you I do not do this - I am making an example. Suppose my distributor said I could get free freight if I ordered more units, or maybe a free LCD TV if I spent more money with them that year. So I call up my buddy dealer a few hours a way - and say are you cool with my bringing some boxes down for cost for you? Or suppose I operate under multiple DBA's - you would have to research my business records and figure out that JoeBlowsCHeapProjectors.com is really LaPremierHomeTheaterOfYourTown - and they are moving stuff out the back door to keep their rep happy. Or maybe you are a national known web site, and your rep heard you did a few local installs last year - but did not intentionally connect the dots with the truck load of boxes you ordered - because he is making his quotas. That is how greymarket exists - in all cases - it is a dealer violating their contract one way or another. If your ethics match theirs fine - you have a deal.


I chose to do business with those that value my ethics, and my services, and don't try to tell me how to run my business cost model. I do not do what I allude to other dealers doing - so I simply cannot afford such pricing. Maybe you can find the hobbyist that sells Infocus on weekends and make a deal in the back of his van - but Infocus really does not want that type of dealer either. Both sides make them look bad in the end.
 

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Kras,


You obviously feel very strongly about Infocus tight distribution controls. I see lenghty posts from you any time an unsuspecting new member asks about where to buy an Infocus projector.


My experience with Infocus dealers is a little more like the poster above where none of the dealers in my zip/area code had any for demoing. IF can control distribution all they want but if my experience is any indication of their local availability then I'd say they probably sell very little volume compared to other competing brands.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
WOW....First of all, I am EXTREMELY sorry for mentioning a dealer, I did not know it woluld be so problematic. I am new to the forum and didn't realize it. I guess what I was trying to get to was, can you trust dealers who have prices significantly lower than known or legit dealers. I am just trying to get the MOST for my money....a good deal, which is what a SMART consumer generally does. As for Krasmuzik, don't ever rudly criticize a person and tell them to just buy another product if they can't pay the retail price. How do you know what someone can and cannot afford? Trust me, I can probably afford more than what you think; I just know that I work for my money and I am going spend it WISELY, even if it means going price hunting.
 

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KramerTC,


Yes I feel very strongly when I see some newbie try to turn AVScience into AVDeals. Happens more often in the cheaper forum though. I see you have been joined for years - surely you can see the lack of manufacturer/software/dealer reps that used to post here with all kinds of good tweaking advice. I've lurked at other forums for a year or more before I joined or posted - so that I learn the rules of the hosts. Anything else is just rude, ignorance is not an excuse. There are other forums for discussing where the deals are at.


Local dealers soon get wise to the guy coming in with his froogle printouts that could care less about their business as far as services provided. Selling to someone for cheap without service is not a good way to go either - does not result in referrals - and the guy will likely screw something up and want cheap service down the road. I have pretty much solved that problem as I charge for services - including the initial site survey. If you don't want to pay it - then yes indeed my advertised price is $6999 and I do not have a demo available for you. Otherwise I would be running a non-profit organization for AVSers to see the latest greatest stuff - I already do that when I go meet with other local AVSers - so they can come to the meets if they just want to see stuff.


I also have lengthy posts on here about tweaking people setups as well. But I don't need to be doing that - especially if it is reducing unauthorized dealers support costs. If AVScience turns into AVDeals - I will not be doing it any more.
 

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I want to buy a 2006 Cadillac STS. I know it lists for 65K, but on crazyjoeswhatcars cost.com, they say it only costs 40k to build. I think a fair price is 50k (I'd really like to pay less of course). I find it unfair that Cadillac and its dealers have conspired to keep the price artificially high.


I know this is a ridiculous analogy.


Heres one that is reality. I want to get a Nikon D70s digital camera. The newest model, has only been out for a few weeks. At my local dealer it is 1200 bucks. Online, right now, it is selling for around 800. No warranty if I purchase it from an unauthorized dealer. Why is Nikon gouging me by making me pay full retail if I want a warranty? I think a fair price from my dealer would be slightly higher than what the online guy is selling it for. What do you think my chances of getting one of the many local dealers to match this price is? Zero.


I just don't get why this is such a hard thing to understand. Infocus dealers can charge anything they want for any projector. If an authorized dealer wants to sell it for 2500 off list, no problem. If they don't, then either pay the going rate, buy a grey market unit and take your chances, or get another projector. A premium product costs more than a non-premium product. Infocus feels that they offer a premium product. If they are wrong, no one will buy them and soon they won't sell any projectors. Runco, Marantz, Sim all sell the same basic projector, same chipset, same specs for a considerably higher price. No one really ever bitches about them. Infocus takes the brunt of this. Optoma and BenQ offer projectors based on the same chipset that we all know are available at a huge discount. If you don't ike Infocus policies, don't buy their product.


Kramer, you are probably right , sort of. Infocus probably sells far fewer DIY projectors than Optoma, Benq, Panasonic etc. But they sell many many more projectors than these brands through authorized dealers. Kras is right, how many threads have you seen where people ask 'where can I see the Optoma XX projector locally? The answer is no where because displaying dealers won't sell them, they can't make a dime from them when they are sold below cost on the internet.
 
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