AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 29 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
716 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A month or so ago Stereophile had an article that music is no good in 5.1 channels unless video was accompied with the 5.1 audio. I disagree,but would love others views. Many early audiophiles said we needed 3 channels (left,center, right) but vinyl could only handle 2 channels that is why we got 2ch. stereo in the late 50s
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
113 Posts
3 channels are cool(3.1 better) but as i have 6.1 decoder, some 5.1 sources and do my own encodes i prefer 5.1 to don't let the surrounds channels in silence.

even doing some encodes where i can be 6.1 and having 6.1 decoder i prefer 5.1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
158 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgpt6 /forum/post/17051202


A month or so ago Stereophile had an article that music is no good in 5.1 channels unless video was accompied with the 5.1 audio. I disagree,but would love others views. Many early audiophiles said we needed 3 channels (left,center, right) but vinyl could only handle 2 channels that is why we got 2ch. stereo in the late 50s

The shamans at Stereophile say some of the strangest things. One can imagine what they would have written in the 1950s about two channel recording and playback. After reading the entrails of pigeons and frogs, they would undoubtedly conclude that only monophonic could properly reproduce the "dynamics" and "soundstage" of live music.


And of course the Victrola was far superior to amplified music, what with all those horrible "resonances" in speakers. ;-)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,788 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgpt6 /forum/post/17051202


A month or so ago Stereophile had an article that music is no good in 5.1 channels unless video was accompied with the 5.1 audio. I disagree,.......................

Me, too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
i think 4.0 or 4.1 is best. the center channel seems like overkill for audio esp...john
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,788 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by apesfan /forum/post/17054343


i think 4.0 or 4.1 is best. the center channel seems like overkill for audio esp...john

The center channel is critical for music, if it is not compromised and if it gets a discrete signal.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,758 Posts
Kal,


I wonder if you have heard Porcupine Tree's live DVD - and if you haven't could you try and give it a listen. Steven Wilson mixed the DTS track with nothing in the center channel


edit: and it sounds gorgeous
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,311 Posts
Multichannel is much more dependent on the mix, and how you will then perceive the soundstage. When you are "in front" of the stage, it is wonderful, but if you are in the center of the performers, it seems totally unnatural. I'm old enough to remember the release of stereo albums. Some of the original stuff was mixed to show off the both sides, with a ping pong effect. Some of the Beatles stuff was mixed with music to one channel and vocals to the other. Eventually things calmed down, and the engineers mixed to produce a proper soundstage. Eventually most multichannel stuff will also try to just enhance the performance rather than play with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,695 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgpt6 /forum/post/17051202


Many early audiophiles said we needed 3 channels (left,center, right) but vinyl could only handle 2 channels that is why we got 2ch. stereo in the late 50s

True dat: when Bell Labs started experimenting with "stereo" in the late 1930s, it was 3 channels. The first movie to use 3 speakers across the front was Disney's 'Fantasia', which was 99% music (for those who think the centre channel was intended for dialogue). Unfortunately, there was no suitable delivery media at the time, so stereo ended up being 2 channels.


As for "how many channels is best for music", I say the more the better. Capture and mix using as many discrete channels as logistics allow. Downmixing can be done later to match the channel limitations of various delivery media: 7.1 for BD, 5.1 for DVD, 2.0 for CD. Likewise, deliver using as many discrete channels as possible. Listeners can downmix to fewer channels in order to match their speaker layout (I'd prefer that to extracting additional channels).


For stereo to give the impression of a solid and stable wavefront, I'd want at least 3 channels (L/C/R). The rest (surrounds, height, etc) can be done using some sort of ambience extraction IF more discrete channels aren't possible. But the minimum for me would be 3 channels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef /forum/post/17054954


Multichannel is much more dependent on the mix, and how you will then perceive the soundstage. When you are "in front" of the stage, it is wonderful, but if you are in the center of the performers, it seems totally unnatural. I'm old enough to remember the release of stereo albums. Some of the original stuff was mixed to show off the both sides, with a ping pong effect. Some of the Beatles stuff was mixed with music to one channel and vocals to the other. Eventually things calmed down, and the engineers mixed to produce a proper soundstage. Eventually most multichannel stuff will also try to just enhance the performance rather than play with it.

as a beatle fan, the reason and you probably know this ,the reason for the american albums having the ping pong sound voices on one channel and instruments on the other was when emi sent the masters over to america the one tape had the voices and the other the backing track and the capitol engineers were to mix them to mono for release, but capital had that full demensional fake stereo to sell thats why they are hard right vocals and hard left instruments and when they implemented that full demensional stereo it had that sick high sound out of one channel and low sounds out of the other. this all stopped with sgt. pepper. john
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
70 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef /forum/post/17054954


Multichannel is much more dependent on the mix, and how you will then perceive the soundstage. When you are "in front" of the stage, it is wonderful, but if you are in the center of the performers, it seems totally unnatural... Eventually most multichannel stuff will also try to just enhance the performance rather than play with it.

Yes, there are some MC mixes where I'd like to drag the surrounds to the front of the room, but I'd rather deal with that "unnatural" mix because the (older) 2-channel recordings just seem unable to capture the detail available with 5.1. Oh, and no one has ever left my house after hearing my Lexicon 7.1 rig - multichannel or 2-channel material enhanced to 7.1 - saying that they'd rather have just stereo.


AR
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,788 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold /forum/post/17054709


Kal,


I wonder if you have heard Porcupine Tree's live DVD - and if you haven't could you try and give it a listen. Steven Wilson mixed the DTS track with nothing in the center channel


edit: and it sounds gorgeous

No doubt but I hope you will excuse me if I say that I cannot tolerate this music and will not listen to it. I acknowledge that one can do many things with non-acoustic recordings that will sound satisfying but they are not reproducing an actual event; they synthesize an event and can do so impressively.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,771 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgpt6 /forum/post/17051202


A month or so ago Stereophile had an article that music is no good in 5.1 channels unless video was accompied with the 5.1 audio. I disagree,but would love others views.

I'd have to go back and re-read the editorial, but I don't think the author (Steve Guttenberg) was necessarily saying 5.1 couldn't be any good for music - just that it hasn't been. And it's hard to argue with his points.


I am a big 5.1 music fan and prefer it almost always to 2.0, but there is little question that there has been poor catalog support, questionable surrond mixing, and complete apathy on the part of the general consumer - all of which adds up to mass-market R.I.P.


If surround is not being asked to re-create the listening venue (which is a contradiction in terms if the recording in question is studio-sourced), then it becomes somewhat 'gimmicky' - which is why I think classical has remained the healthiest niche for 5.1 audio, albeit for a quite small audience. By extension, therefore, it is concert performances, where the venue is relevent, where we should expect to see continued availability of 5.1 - as the article argues - and that is exactly what we see. And if you want just 5.1 audio, turn off your TV - I do this all the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,040 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgpt6 /forum/post/17051202


A month or so ago Stereophile had an article that music is no good in 5.1 channels unless video was accompied with the 5.1 audio. I disagree,but would love others views. Many early audiophiles said we needed 3 channels (left,center, right) but vinyl could only handle 2 channels that is why we got 2ch. stereo in the late 50s

Stereophile? Phffft. WTF have they done to support hi-res surround recordings since JGH left.

They've got one measley writer who only writes about every other issue but MF blathers on and on about 100k f'ing turntables on every other page.

JA measures everything and then states that measurements don't matter if the reviewer's ears tell them otherwise.

Talk about an out of touch publication.

Their target demographic is Orthodontists, Thorassic surgeons and Obgyns plus the above who have retired. Basically they're too fossilized to acknowledge anything beyond stereo and only grudgingly buy CDs because they've already bought every vinyl puck pressed since the late 50's.

(tongue in cheek post. Not that it matters, but I do respect KR greatly, but some of the other staff aye-yi-yi)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,484 Posts
I consider the LFE channel for music recordings as unnecessary. We all know why it was necessary for movies, but they simply don't apply for music. The fact that the music recording industry has no standards as to how to use this channel also created problems for playback standards as it has been discussed in numerous threads. All the bass that any music recording have can be mixed in the main channels in any fashion the producer and mixer feels necessary, and the BM in the playback chain would handle this best as the user wishes it.

So my preference is 5.0.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,484 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriuslyCold /forum/post/17054709


Kal,


I wonder if you have heard Porcupine Tree's live DVD - and if you haven't could you try and give it a listen. Steven Wilson mixed the DTS track with nothing in the center channel


edit: and it sounds gorgeous

I have "Arriving Somewhere" if that's what you're talking about.

Interestingly he uses the center ch on every DVD-A I have from PT and his latest solo album.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,788 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun /forum/post/17064726


I consider the LFE channel for music recordings as unnecessary. We all know why it was necessary for movies, but they simply don't apply for music. The fact that the music recording industry has no standards as to how to use this channel also created problems for playback standards as it has been discussed in numerous threads. All the bass that any music recording have can be mixed in the main channels in any fashion the producer and mixer feels necessary, and the BM in the playback chain would handle this best as the user wishes it.

Amen.
Quote:
So my preference is 5.0.

Why waste a channel? Why not 6.0 as long as we can figure out a standard use for it, such as center/height or center/rear?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,484 Posts
How is my preference is a waste? I'm not against future expansions, but based on on what currently being used by producers for MCH mixes, 5.0 is what I consider a good choice. Why the rolleyes?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
30,788 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun /forum/post/17069647


How is my preference is a waste? I'm not against future expansions, but based on on what currently being used by producers for MCH mixes, 5.0 is what I consider a good choice. Why the rolleyes?

It was all tongue-in-cheek. I do not anticipate any consensus beyond the present situation.
 
1 - 20 of 29 Posts
Top