AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 14 of 14 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How much clarity is enough for this projector?

Based upon my last 1270 which I thought just terrific at the time, my just bought 1271 is better, sharper and easier to set up because of the extra zone control.


My movie room has just gotten into good enough shape where last night I dragged the machine in to fire it up for the first time since the day it arrived a month ago.


As with the last time, I have it hooked up to my PC with a Radeon Card. This card is an 9600 pro. The card feeds a standard monitor cable into an "Inline 2080" computer video interface for PS/2 and compatible computers. It feeds four BIN cables out to R GG /Synch B and Sync (I kept this little item when I sold my 1270.)


I think I have registered the grids and am pretty satisfied with the alignment and sharpness of the test patterns. I mechanically focused the tubes an slightly tweaked the electic focus. As per instructions found here I am running it at just 43 Hz but its interlaced. I only have 48 interlaced and 60 non interlaced as options. I am running at a higher resolution than last time though 1280X768

I feel I am getting about as good an image as I used to have.


There in is the rub. Maybe I should be expecting more. Projecting the Windows desktop the icon lettering is legible and readable, but far from crisp. Its a slight challenge to read black on white text from back where the projector sits. Obviously I can't expect Sony monitor quality like I have in my bedroom, but I wonder since this is a 'Superdata" projector, maybe there is more clarity to be had than I demanded from it in the past.


I have invested in building a dedicated theater with controlled lighting and a screen. I haven't gone in and done a full out calibration with astigmatism and goggle flappers and all that home theater dialect I don't understand. I don't think its something I should attempt the first weeks even though I am an experienced owner. But I am wondering if I go that extra mile or improve something in the food chain, can I get something closer to the look of my computer monitor in terms of sharpness?




P.S. This isn't related directly but I notice when playing a DVD a creamy yellow quaility to the white. Its not burn in. It has something to do with the overlay because Windows whites...like this letter screen I am typing on ARE showing up white. But Sin City is slightly yellowish...not a pure gray in scenes. Same for Bug's Life title...its creamy, not white. . I am not making this a question becaue I haven't had time to check. I am starting by running Adobe Gamma just for this projectors as a base to start with. But if anything jumps out as an obfious thing to fix, feel free to pipe in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,484 Posts
How many hours on the counter? I have had 1271's with apparently beautiful tubes that would not focus sharply due to high hours on standby ! It could also need the Astig optimized.


If the yellowing issue is in the projector, that could be a sign of high hour tubes with like new phospher.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,729 Posts
The image from a 1270 or 1271 should be about the same. Tube condition is the key in either case. You may try a lower resolution for better sharpness. I had brand new tubes in my 1271 and ran it at 720x480 in a 16:9 shape and It was great. I know people considered that too low a resolution here at the time and I guess It could certainly run higher but no-adays I think it's considered to be more or less the right resolution.


Some people go as high as 600p but you better have lens flapping mods if you want to go there. And still resolve it all.


(Just my views of course, Good Luck,)


Brian
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
408 Posts
You'll never really achieve a sharp "monitor" like appearance for a windows desktop. You can definately get a a beautiful filmlike image and stunning high def tv pictures. The sharpest I've achieved on my 1252 (very close in spec to your 1271) is with 800x600 and I'd stack that up against a monitor from 1990 maybe... (in terms of readability). Crisp fonts on in single colors are not a strength for this one (and probably any crts).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,027 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomiccow
...P.S. This isn't related directly but I notice when playing a DVD a creamy yellow quaility to the white.
Keep in mind that you need to (or it is normal to) adjust blue electronic focus just a little off to achieve non-yellow whites, although I wouldn't expect a difference between your DVD whites and those from the desktop but maybe it's just more noticable on DVDs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerry Arseneau
Keep in mind that you need to (or it is normal to) adjust blue electronic focus just a little off to achieve non-yellow whites, although I wouldn't expect a difference between your DVD whites and those from the desktop but maybe it's just more noticable on DVDs.
Thanks. It took a day to get back on this. I had a question about the electric adjustment.


Is it ok to up the blue like over two hundred from around 180 on the gain if brightness and contrast are at normal levels 50 and 80. I obviously don't want to force my blue tube into overdrive, but it does seem to help.


About DVD yellow. My computer video offers control over the desktop and overlay. Overlay is video. Power DVD has its own overlay controls as does windows. I am not sure what I did but when I went back to play last night Sin City looked whiter than it had earlier that afternoon. Running Adobe Gamma for the projector probably helped. I ran Fifth Element and it looked fantastic. I still have much I can do to improve things. The clear protective plastic is still on my PVC sheet I am using for a screen and I am not sure how white that is. I may still paint it.


The area where you guys could really help out is I am using this thing called an Inline (Brand is Inline) 2080 computer interface. Looks like this...
http://i14.ebayimg.com/01/i/04/75/be/9a_1_b.JPG

It goes from a computer monitor outlet to four bins R G/G synch B and SYNCH.

I saved this unit when I sold my 1270. Seems to do the job but wondered if this is any good. This picture is on EBay right now and its selling for just 15 bucks. Maybe its a cheapy even though it looks sturdy. If you look at the picture it has a passthrough on the monitor hookup. Mine has what I guess you would call a terminator on the backside. I assume that stays on when in use. When I take it off the picture brightens up immensely but I think its overdriven so I recap it.


But because there is such a huge difference it makes me think perhaps this isn't the best unit to use. But what do I know?


Brian I did read all your stuff and scoped out Mooneyasses manual. Anyway I dropped the Hz down to 43 but with all the low hz they are all interlaced. AlsoI wanted to drop the resolution to the multiple of whatever you said, but the best my comp can do is go down to 800 by 600. It makes sense to run at 720 as its the native resolution of the DVD. Anything else I imagine would engender interpolation. But can you up it for WMVHD and do better?


I know there is that software program everyone uses to get more resolution offerings. I can't recall the name of it now.


Govgeek. In really pitch dark I refocused the tubes manually again and really worked the zones and did a bit better on the fonts. Also my screen is a little warbly at the moment and I hadn't noticed. Also it wasn't standing perfectly vertical. Tweeking it flatter certainly made the focusing easier.


As far as what I see in the generated grids, I couldn't be much happier with this projector over my last. It just seems so much sharper and my red on the 1270 had a warble in the corner. This one is perfecto.


Thanks for the help and suggestions everyone.
 

·
Registered
Certified Audiophile ;-)
Joined
·
2,165 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomiccow
P.S. This isn't related directly but I notice when playing a DVD a creamy yellow quaility to the white. Its not burn in. It has something to do with the overlay because Windows whites...like this letter screen I am typing on ARE showing up white. But Sin City is slightly yellowish...not a pure gray in scenes. Same for Bug's Life title...its creamy, not white. . I am not making this a question becaue I haven't had time to check. I am starting by running Adobe Gamma just for this projectors as a base to start with. But if anything jumps out as an obfious thing to fix, feel free to pipe in.


I have the same issue with my 1270. I used to think something is wrong with my pj until I hooked up a good computer monitor to the output of my DVDO fed by a DVD player. Viola the picture was still yellow! :eek:


Then I played a DVD on my monitor attached to the PC. Yessss sireeee it was still yellowish! :mad:


I read a lot of posts and found out that you have to adjust the color settings of your overlay. They call it "calibration of your HTPC output" :D

So I went ahead and did that (my CRT monitor was attached to the PC) I corrected the yellowing on the CRT monitor itself. Tonight I will connect the PJ again to the PC. I am pretty confident that its picture will also improve. :rolleyes:


Of course my blue tube has some wear on it. Maybe yours also has some wear. Check it with your lenses removed. Try cleaning the tube faces adn the back of the lenses. That mad a LOT of difference in my pj. :cool:


Oh yes, I do not think adobe gamma does anything to your overlay. You can change a lot of settings on your desktop but I noticed that they do not affect the overlay much. Open the color setting of whatever software you are using to play DVDs on your pc and change them.


And yes. While you are doing it play a DVD (I recommend the DVE) :D


Lastly you might want to ditch overlay altogether and go with VMR9 instead. More info here http://www.htpcguide.com/glossary/vmr9/



Good luck!!

-Rajiv :eek:


PS: Check out these links for more (way too much) info...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...89#post4969789

and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=523614

and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=465419
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajdude
I have the same issue with my 1270. I used to think something is wrong with my pj until I hooked up a good computer monitor to the output of my DVDO fed by a DVD player. Viola the picture was still yellow! :eek:


Then I played a DVD on my monitor attached to the PC. Yessss sireeee it was still yellowish! :mad:


I read a lot of posts and found out that you have to adjust the color settings of your overlay. They call it "calibration of your HTPC output" :D

So I went ahead and did that (my CRT monitor was attached to the PC) I corrected the yellowing on the CRT monitor itself. Tonight I will connect the PJ again to the PC. I am pretty confident that its picture will also improve. :rolleyes:


Of course my blue tube has some wear on it. Maybe yours also has some wear. Check it with your lenses removed. Try cleaning the tube faces adn the back of the lenses. That mad a LOT of difference in my pj.



Oh yes, I do not think adobe gamma does anything to your overlay. You can change a lot of settings on your desktop but I noticed that they do not affect the overlay much. Open the color setting of whatever software you are using to play DVDs on your pc and change them.


And yes. While you are doing it play a DVD (I recommend the DVE) :D


Lastly you might want to ditch overlay altogether and go with VMR9 instead. More info here http://www.htpcguide.com/glossary/vmr9/



Good luck!!

-Rajiv :eek:


PS: Check out these links for more (way too much) info...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...89#post4969789

and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=523614

and
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=465419



Wow, now that is a great tip. Downloading now. Can't wait to try it. Bypass overlay, what a concept! I will have much control over my color now. Like an all powerful genie. I have perhaps too much power!!! I must be stopped! :eek: :p :)


I'll definitely check the links. Have an important post to make.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
So I went ahead and did that (my CRT monitor was attached to the PC) I corrected the yellowing on the CRT monitor itself. Tonight I will connect the PJ again to the PC. I am pretty confident that its picture will also improve.
This reminded me of something with my last 1270. Maybe its useful to someone. I used to keep my computer monitor running as a second monitor to control the DVD from the other room. It took me a while to realize this but feeding two monitors off a splitter is a bad idea. I was definitely yellowing my picture when both were running. Actually I was sort of oranging it. Took me about three weeks to realize why some nights my projector looked sharp and other nights drab and hard to adjust color. I still used the splitter but unplugged it as soon as everything was set up to play the movie.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
perfectly focused blue will give you a yellow tinge throw up a white test screen and then play with the blue focus if you can,t get rid of a yellow tinge by defocusing the blue then the blue is worn, and its time to go looking around for a replacement, my blue has some light wear on it and it still shows a white screen (slightly defocused).........
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by penticton102
perfectly focused blue will give you a yellow tinge throw up a white test screen and then play with the blue focus if you can,t get rid of a yellow tinge by defocusing the blue then the blue is worn, and its time to go looking around for a replacement, my blue has some light wear on it and it still shows a white screen (slightly defocused).........
Good clue Penticton. This might be the solution of why the yellow seemed to go away as I did another manual refocus of all the tubes that evening. I still haven't checked the actual face of the tubes but my 1270 was pristine and had only fifty hours on all the tubes. (Was said to have been retubed back in '99 and then never used much again. ) This 1271 seems even better, probably for better calibrated electronics reasons.I can see no trace of burn in. I am sure it has some wear but its sharp and does produce good whites. I was so lucky with this purchase was an Ebay item and the guy said he could not check the projector for me as it was in storage. I bought it blind even with all the red flags. I couldn't resist the price.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
thats why i haven,t upgraded (yet)to a em focus machine yet (my 1271q throws a really nice bright pic on a 72x96 video spectra screen) and focuses really well, as my son says it it ain,t broke don,t fixit......
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by penticton102
thats why i haven,t upgraded (yet)to a em focus machine yet (my 1271q throws a really nice bright pic on a 72x96 video spectra screen) and focuses really well, as my son says it it ain,t broke don,t fixit......


I couldn't be happier. I love Sony color. Obviously I crave something a lot smaller and lighter and also an affordable black screen. I am not enamoured with watching everything in the dark. Fortunately I have never seen better to suffer cravings for it.


What a world to live in where you can get this nice a home theater image for 300 dollars.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,007 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by atomiccow
I couldn't be happier. I love Sony color. Obviously I crave something a lot smaller and lighter and also an affordable black screen. I am not enamoured with watching everything in the dark. Fortunately I have never seen better to suffer cravings for it.


What a world to live in where you can get this nice a home theater image for 300 dollars.


yep the only way it gets any better is a hottie sitting there with you..life is good!!
 
1 - 14 of 14 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top