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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
There are a lot of different aspects and scenarios that affects the displays 3D performance

and there are not yet any public standards or test discs to 3D performance testing.


This testvideo tests only one extreme situation that is problematic even with plasma TVs.

If you get bad score from this test it doesn't mean that the 3D is totally broken/unwatchable.

Just want to see how well different displays behave in this extreme condition.


Lets gather performance results from our TVs

Download this side-by-side L-R 3D video:
http://www.box.net/shared/lpe35vy1h8


- Place it on USB stick, put the stick on TV and play it. Panasonic VT owners needs to play it from other external device (BD player) to be able to enable the 3D mode.

- Enable 3D and choose the side-by-side mode and open 3D glasses.

- In the middle of the video press pause.

- First close your right eye and write the smaller number which is visible on the top half screen and then write the smaller number which is visible on the bottom half screen

- Do the same procedure then with the left eye closed.


Frank created a .MPO 3D still picture version file of the image from the video which is attached to this forum post.

The side by side jpeg can be downloaded here:
http://3dfrank.com/testpattern.jpg

You can play .MPO 3D picture files with PS3 'Play Memories' program available free from PSN.

Panasonic plasmas can play this from memory stick.


Example how you can answer:

3D TV model: Samsung PN50C7705 50" Plasma

3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered.


Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 3

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


If you can't see the top/bottom half screen you must answer:

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 4

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 5


With this crosstalk test we can measure how good performs each set 3d tv/3d glasses with high contrast dark background scenes.


The best possible results for crosstalk are:

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


...Shamelessly copied this topic from other forum that lies in the dark corner of the internet to get more results.

 

testpattern.zip 135.6015625k . file
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
My Score:

3D TV model: Samsung PS50C7705 50" Plasma (same as US PN50C8000)

3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered & XPand X103 Unversal glasses.

The results are the same with both glasses but Xpand gives better real life results as the crosstalk is dimmer.


Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 3

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Mine is just horrible, only the two darkest levels are not visible to the other eye everything else bleeds through. Samsung needs to fix this.

But dont get me wrong. 3D movies plays just fine on this Samsung. There are so few scenes that has this big contrast. Normal scenes have no issues.


EDIT:

Results from the .mpo files played with PS3 'Play Memories' 3D pic gallery app.

This can be treated as results with frame packed material as the PS3 app puts the TV in 'proper 3D mode' same as used with the 3D Bluray movies.

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 10

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 10

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Much better compared to side-by-side material. There seems to be room for improvement in timings with Samsung plasmas in sbs mode.


Other scores from my post from UK forum (plasma TVs only):


eye of ra's Samsung PS63C7000 Plasma F/W 3003 (same as US PN63C8000)

3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered.

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 2

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 3

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


clle's LG 50px990:

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 10

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 9

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


ianbuckley's Panasonic TX-P65VT20B with original battery glasses.

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 20

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 20

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Parmenion62's Samsung PS50C680 Battery operated glasses

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 20

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 20

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


papyto's Samsung 6900 (US c7000 plasma) 3003 fw

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 4

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 15

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 4

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 15
 

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Mitsubishi 82838 DLP

I just downloaded the file and dragged it into stereoscopic player and viewed it in a 3D window and got these results.


Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Viewing it full screen yielded the same results.
 

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Samsung UN40C7000 with rechargeable Samsung glasses:

tested exactly the same way as the Mits DLP


Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Score: Mitsubishi 100 percent, Samsung 0 percent
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/0


Mitsubishi 82838 DLP

I just downloaded the file and dragged it into stereoscopic player and viewed it in a 3D window and got these results.


Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> NOTHING

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Viewing it full screen yielded the same results.

What about your VT20????
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zkalra /forum/post/19523221


What about your VT20????

I think I put it in the garage somewhere since I find it pretty much useless.
 

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3D TV model: Samsung PN58C7000 58" Plasma

3D glasses model: Samsung original battery powered.

Firmware: 1032 view from 8=10 feet.

Cell light 20, constract 95, brightness 55


Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 5

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 5

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


If I change the constract from 95 to 85 and brightnes from 50 to 65 it goes to at least 1-10 10-1. cell light from 20 to 15 it goes to 1-18 18-1
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zkalra /forum/post/19523221


What about your VT20????

O.K.

Since you asked, I decided to drag it from the garage into the theater and test it.

It was in "Cinema mode"

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 13

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 13

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1
 

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This test looks interesting but could be improved : it only shows absolute black/white contrast. It would be very interesting to see what happens when you use various grey backgrounds all the way up to pure white. It would show the inverse crosstalk that many LCD displays have (and improve the score of other displays a lot, since bright numbers on black background is the worst case scenario for plasma and polarised technology)


Here is one of my displays :

3D display : Zalman Trimon ZM220 computer monitor (2008)

3D glasses : Zalman 3D glasses shipped with the display


This display is a custom Zalman circular polarised 3D interlaced display, compatible with RealD but 45° off angle from RealD standard. The picture is still watchable but ghosting is 50% stronger and changes coulour to purple if used with RealD glasses

Also due to the interlacing of the µpol filter technology, this display has a sweet spot, horizontal view angle is pretty wide but the vertical on is very very narrow, you have to be at the right height otherwise you get total crosstalk. The values reported here are when watched inside the sweet spot


The display is very shiny, crosstalk tends to get hidden behind reflections.

Brightness 50%, Contrast 50%


DARK ROOM (no reflections)

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 10

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 10

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


BRIGHT ROOM (lots of reflections)

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 2

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 20

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 20

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 2
 

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3D TV model: Sony KDL-60LX900 60'

3D glasses model: Sony original (TDG-BR100B)

Cell light max (unable to change in 3D mode) contrast 97, brightness 47


Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 15

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 15

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


If I made small change brightness/contrast it goes to 1-17/17-1
 

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@neo,


Did you not see that a Panasonic VT20 and Samsung PN50C680 (same panel as 7000 & 8000 just a bit more featureless) rated the same above?


Granted we do not know anything as to the settings these people used which would help some in comparing how/why they scored the same, 1 to 20 basically in both eyes. And so far the score of 20 is the best short of Nothing that only the DLP sets are getting. And we should not act like DLP has no disadvantages of its own, maybe I am special but I can see the rainbow effect on a 4x speed color wheel when I owned a DLP projector. Most of the time I could only see it when I moved my head quickly, but it surely causes fatigue in its own right, so I explicitly chose plasma 3D over DLP. I would not even want to imagine what the rainbow effect could be like with shutter glasses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital...nbow_effect.22


Here in a little while I will test my PN50C490 and I will report back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank /forum/post/19522790


I just downloaded the file and dragged it into stereoscopic player and viewed it in a 3D window and got these results.

Did you test the Samsung also with Stereoscopic player? Because there was speculation that SBS mode has the problem but framepacked could work better as the 3D blurays has less crosstalk.

Did the Stereoscopic Player convert the side-by-side to framepacked with 3D Vision/3DTV Play? I was going to test this when I borrow next time the NVidia emitter.

Thanks for the results and dragging the VT from garage


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShark /forum/post/19524016


This test looks interesting but could be improved : it only shows absolute black/white contrast. It would be very interesting to see what happens when you use various grey backgrounds all the way up to pure white. It would show the inverse crosstalk that many LCD displays have (and improve the score of other displays a lot, since bright numbers on black background is the worst case scenario for plasma and polarised technology)

Yeah this tests only one extreme condition. There are so much more aspects that defines the overall 3D performance. That 'inverse crosstalk' is a good description that I saw with LCDs with another test pic and Panasonic/Samsung plasmas didnt have any of this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazvtech /forum/post/19523485


If I change the constract from 95 to 85 and brightnes from 50 to 65 it goes to at least 1-10 10-1. cell light from 20 to 15 it goes to 1-18 18-1

With those settings I get 1-8 7-1 but the black level/contrast is quite bad.

Settings doesnt affect much with my TV. When they affect the overall picture quality suffers a lot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glitchbit /forum/post/19524614


Samsung PN50C680 (same panel as 7000 & 8000 just a bit more featureless) rated the same above?

Here in a little while I will test my PN50C490 and I will report back.

Could the c680 have the same panel? TV is so much more thicker. Also panels bigger than the 50" has different characteristics. Little bit deeper blacks. Cant wait your c490 results.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanite /forum/post/19524979


Could the c680 have the same panel? TV is so much more thicker. Also panels bigger than the 50" has different characteristics. Little bit deeper blacks. Cant wait your c490 results.

You may be right, I mainly said that because someone here turned their C680 into an 8000 via the service menu if I recall correctly. I know the 7000 users obviously have been doing it with a lot of success (so if you are a 680 user make sure you confirm this before taking my word on it).


I guess it is possible that maybe the guts & panel are similar enough to work, but not exactly the same.
 

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I had the Mitsubishi and Samsung hooked to my computer at the same time and they were both in checkerboard mode.

I leave Stereoscopic player in checkerboard 3d mode and play 3D in a window normally.

That is what I did here and then I double clicked the 3D window and viewed it full screen.

I never use Nvidia 3D vision because it requires full screen to get 3D.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanite /forum/post/19524979


Did you test the Samsung also with Stereoscopic player? Because there was speculation that SBS mode has the problem but framepacked could work better as the 3D blurays has less crosstalk.

Did the Stereoscopic Player convert the side-by-side to framepacked with 3D Vision/3DTV Play? I was going to test this when I borrow next time the NVidia emitter.

Thanks for the results and dragging the VT from garage
 

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PN50C490

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 6

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 6

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


The room was dimmly lit, so maybe if it was totally black it could have been slightly worse maybe a 5 or a 4. Also the mode and settings did not really seem to have an effect on the results as I expected it to, but at the same time the clip plays for such a short while and then it loops and I have to reset the 3D effect it is difficult to really play with it any when the clip restarts every 10 seconds! *Sorry I forgot I could pause it*


Ok let me update this, because I think I have discovered something that will significantly impact our results on Plasma TVs. I have not yet ran any of the burn in clips on my tv, I was too excited to sit down and watch some stuff for a few hours than to bother with a boring burn in clip.


If you turn your tv on cold and it is in movie picture mode by default or any dark mode then run this test and your results may match a brighter mode such as standard... However if you switch to standard and back to movie mode you will find that movie mode is much worse than what it was previously!! I believe this to be an issue with new sets not having been burned in yet, at least I hope and not some kind of afterglow effect.


I think this explains why some people say that every time they play a movie whether it is the same one or not they feel like they need to tweak their settings. I would say that it is due to the fact that their tv is likely not burned in yet and that its picture quality will be variable until the phosphors have settled more. I noticed this the most the other day when I walked away from the Coraline movie and came back and saw that the samsung screensaver came on and there were burn in like marks all over my set that said "samsung". I was fairly ticked but they went away pretty quick once I started the movie.


oh yea just now when I was in movie mode from the start the ratings were


Movie mode

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 7

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 7

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Standard

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 7

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 7

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


Standard -> (Back to movie) Movie

Standard

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 1

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 1


So what I would advise people to do is to try and keep their sets out of standard, bright modes, torch modes or whatever for at least the first 100-150 hours of use and hopefully after that you can switch back and forth without this kind of burn in issue from occuring. It might also be advisable to simply turn your TV off entirely (for how long I am not sure) between changing Picture modes, so if you are on standard and switch to movie mode then turn off your tv, wait for whatever determined amount of time that works well and then turn your tv back on. I know this sucks, but I doubt a firmware will come out that can fix this issue.
 

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Thanks to the OP for posting this. Standard test patterns with quantitative data is what's needed to properly evaluate these 3D sets. Sure beats talking about the bridge scene in monsters v aliens. ALso, this pattern exists with a white background out there in the interwebs. We should also be able to take these patterns and re-encode them to different fps (for tvs that play back 3D in variable refresh rates) and to the other 3D formats like over/under and frame packed. Should be easy to do in avisynth.


Here's what I got for the Sony HX909

Left eye open/right closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 6

Left eye open/right closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 18

Right eye open/left closed -> top half screen smaller visible number -> 20

Right eye open/left closed -> bottom half screen smaller visible number -> 2
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanite /forum/post/19522683


Mine is just horrible, only the two darkest levels are not visible to the other eye everything else bleeds through. Samsung needs to fix this.

But dont get me wrong. 3D movies plays just fine on this Samsung. There are so few scenes that has this big contrast. Normal scenes have no issues.

I think it has something to do with the software the tv uses to play the video clips from the usb drive. These always show a lot of xtalk. I know the performance on 3d blu-ray is a lot better. I can watch a whole movie and see very little xtalk even looking for it.
 
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