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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello everyone,


Thanks in advance for your replies and opinion.


Here is the deal. I currently have infiniti beta fronts along with klipsch center and surrounds and a velodyne vx10 sub, not exactly "high end" but it does the job in my apartment.


To power all this "middle-end" speaker system is what I feel is the weakest link in the chain, a Sony STR-DE 598 receiver. Mind you that the sound I get is not all that bad thus leading me to write this thread.


Yesterday while helping my brother buy Klipsch Quintet SL (he was set on buying Bose) I forced him to hear a demo. They were only 2 fronts hooked up and they were powered by an Onkyo TXSR507B and for two small speakers they sure sounded great. In fact I felt they sounded better than my set, especially when it came to make you feel like you are surrounded with sound.


Now I am wondering, I am pretty sure my set is better than the one he is going to buy, so can it be that the receiver made the difference or was it a fluke?


This is causing an itch within me that can only be scratched by shelling out $400 CDN. However, prior to finding out the hard way, I just wanted to get a feedback from you knowledgeable gents regarding this issue:


Would I notice a big difference going from a Sony STR-DE 598 to an Onkyo TXSR507B?


What should I expect to notice differently in terms of sound and how the sound is projected? I know everyone's ears are different, but opinions don't hurt anyone, especially if they reach a consensus.


One thing with my Sony is that my rear surrounds have very very little sound coming from them unless I turn up the level to +5. Also I do not get the same feel of projection I heard from those 2 speakers, but it could be the room, though this was an open space at a store.


Thanks again for your help gents, I hope I can get this itch scratched before I do something stupid or something well warranted!
 

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One thing to think about is that a setup might sound different in a store than your living quarters due to accoustics.
 

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While Sony is not considered high end gear. You'd notice more audible change by purchasing the Klipsh speakers you heard at the store, than replacing the AVR.


Since you already have a Kipsch center, it makes more sense.


BTW Infinities are nice too. Another option would be to purchase an Infinity center.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLKstudios /forum/post/17016814


While Sony is not considered high end gear. You'd notice more audible change by purchasing the Klipsh speakers you heard at the store, than replacing the AVR.


Since you already have a Kipsch center, it makes more sense.


BTW Infinities are nice too. Another option would be to purchase an Infinity the center.

I understand what you are suggesting but I personally feel that my Infinity Primus 250 floor speakers (see link) along with other Klipsch speakers in conjunction should sound better than just "Two" Klipsch Quintet SL (see Link). I feel I would be downgrading if I changed systems, but thats my opinion.


Infinity Floors: http://www.amazon.com/Infinity-Primu.../dp/B0002ADEU6


Klipsch Quintet SL: http://www.klipsch.com/na-en/product...stem-overview/


Again only two fronts of those Quintets were on and seemed to have better projection than my 5.1.


Thanks for the input.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

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Originally Posted by bimmerfreak0 /forum/post/17016862


yea but the infinity's suck up a lot more juice than those quintets....you arent powering them enough...run em 200 watts a peice and see what happens

Thats what I want to know, is the Sony really the root of the problem or the speaker mixed marriage between Infinity and Klipsch? I am having a hard time with accepting that those two speakers filled the store room better than mine can in my living room, but it might be a fluke for all I know.


I don't think the Onkyo TXSR507B is 200 watts though
 

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I agree with MJH. The difference you heard was most likely due to the acoustics of the room -- more efficient speakers playing in a "live" space.


As for the speaker switch, of course I meant to "match" your front stage (LCR). Not necessarily downgrade your Primuses.


As for the AVR "upgrade", it is more of a "cross-grade" (maybe with some additional new features). Unless you double the watts per channel, you're not going to notice much difference in the sound.


Instead, you might want to try an HK to better match your Infinities (both are under the Harman umbrella). HK's also have pre-outs for a separate amp, if your room is large and additional watts are needed -- and you like it LOUD.


HTH
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MLKstudios /forum/post/17017038


I agree with MJH. The difference you heard was most likely due to the acoustics of the room -- more efficient speakers playing in a "live" space.


As for the speaker switch, of course I meant to "match" your front stage (LCR). Not necessarily downgrade your Primuses.


As for the AVR "upgrade", it is more of a "cross-grade" (maybe with some additional new features). Unless you double the watts per channel, you're not going to notice much difference in the sound.


Instead, you might want to try an HK to better match your Infinities (both are under the Harman umbrella). HK's also have pre-outs for a separate amp, if your room is large and additional watts are needed -- and you like it LOUD.


HTH

Thanks for your time. I admit I am not as up to date on receiver as I am on speakers. That being, what HK would you recommend for around $400?


Ps. The reason I have mixed speakers is that I got Klipsch RC52 center for $129 new on clearance. I had in mind to finish with Infinity, but just couldnt pass the deal. I got a similar sort of deal for the rears so here I am.
 

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Hard to say if Sony is the root of all evils
If it's a low powered receiver, you could be going into clipping. No easy way to tell I know of to know that though.


Any idea of what the average SPL is when watching movies?
 

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For an HK, check out the ebay sales. You'll be surprised at the low costs.


Note the HK's power ratings are much lower than competitors, but they sound like they have more power (it's how they are measured). The real advantage is the the pre-outs. If you find it clips at your preferred volume setting, you can easily add more watts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/17017063


Hard to say if Sony is the root of all evils
If it's a low powered receiver, you could be going into clipping. No easy way to tell I know of to know that though.


Any idea of what the average SPL is when watching movies?

I do not have the spl meter, however if it helps the volume on this Sony is numeric. I think it goes as high as 72-ish. To watch movies on HD movie channels decent movie theatre sound I would have to go to mid to upper 50's. For normal house movie sound between 45 to 50.


I dont think there is any clipping even in upper 50's but I cant really listen that loud being in apartment and all.
 

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Volume readout is not real helpful because different numbers mean different SPL levels on different setups and sources.


You could also hook up a Kill A Watt meter. You could compare that power draw to your max power draw. If you only drawing 50 watts or something, you should have a lot of headroom. I have never seen my Kill A Watt measure anywhere near the max power draw according to my manual.
 

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I'm going to have to disagree with everyone that its *not* the AVR. I went onto Sony's site, and they didnt even list the power rating per channel, no THD figures, nothing. What i did find was disconcerting, first of all the entire unit weighed 17lbs, usually an indicator of a terrible amp.


The second thing, which is more important. The unit is rated for a wall outlet draw of 220w. Now given that power supplies/amps are not 100% efficient, and this being a 6channel receiver, i'd be surprised if it driving even 25w of clean reliable power to those speakers.


The dynamics are going to absolutely terrible.


For a point of reference, i had a $500 sony HTIB prior to my current setup, with a seperate AVR, which had specs almost identical to the AVR he has. I had a delay on my receiver when it was ordered so i had a week where i had my new speakers in, but not my sub or my new receiver. When i connected the sony up to my RF-62's and RC-62's, it sounded terrible, barely better than the HTIB speakers i had before. It was flat, had no body, no soundstage or imaging, no bass to speak of. Literally the only thing i changed was swapping out the AVR with my Marantz SR5003, and it was like a whole new world opened up. I could play 60hz test tones and hear them, clear and defined, where on the previous AVR it couldnt even provide enough power for the 6.5" midwoofers in the speakers to produce reasonable volume in low frequencies.


Here is what i say. Since you're buying it in a store, pick up the new receiver, and give it a test, if you like what you hear, which i think you will, keep it. If not, return it.


Edit: Thought i'd mention, you can get some awesome deals with refurbed units. Great thing about refurbs is they're fully tested prior to shipping, by a human, so you know it works. I've had my Marantz for a few months now without any hiccups.


This is a good deal on a nice receiver that would do a great job powering your setup, and this company ships to CA, also where i got my receiver from, good people:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...r-BLACK/1.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrimnir /forum/post/17017509


I'm going to have to disagree with everyone that its *not* the AVR. I went onto Sony's site, and they didnt even list the power rating per channel, no THD figures, nothing. What i did find was disconcerting, first of all the entire unit weighed 17lbs, usually an indicator of a terrible amp.


The second thing, which is more important. The unit is rated for a wall outlet of 220w. Now given that power supplies/amps are not 100% efficient, and this being a 6channel receiver, i'd be surprised if it driving even 25w of clean reliable power to those speakers.


The dynamics are going to absolutely terrible.


For a point of reference, i had a $500 sony HTIB prior to my current setup, with a seperate AVR, which had specs almost identical to the AVR he has. I had a delay on my receiver when it was ordered so i had a week where i had my new speakers in, but not my sub or my new receiver. When i connected the sony up to my RF-62's and RC-62's, it sounded terrible, barely better than the HTIB speakers i had before. It was flat, had no body, no soundstage or imaging, no bass to speak of. Literally the only thing i changed was swapping out the AVR with my Marantz SR5003, and it was like a whole new world opened up. I could play 60hz test tones and hear them, clear and defined, where on the previous AVR it couldnt even provide enough power for the 6.5" midwoofers in the speakers to produce reasonable volume in low frequencies.


Here is what i say. Since you're buying it in a store, pick up the new receiver, and give it a test, if you like what you hear, which i think you will, keep it. If not, return it.


Edit: Thought i'd mention, you can get some awesome deals with refurbed units. Great thing about refurbs is they're fully tested prior to shipping, by a human, so you know it works. I've had my Marantz for a few months now without any hiccups.


This is a good deal on a nice receiver that would do a great job powering your setup, and this company ships to CA, also where i got my receiver from, good people:

http://www.accessories4less.com/make...r-BLACK/1.html

Thank you for your input I shall consider your advice indeed! Imaging was the word I was looking for, I kept saying projecting. The store speakers seemed to have a lot better imaging than I get at home with all 5.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidape /forum/post/17017698


Thank you for your input I shall consider your advice indeed! Imaging was the word I was looking for, I kept saying projecting. The store speakers seemed to have a lot better imaging than I get at home with all 5.

Hey, wanted to mention i went back on accesories4less.com, apparently they dont ship the Onkyos outside the US, but do ship the Marantz. wondering if its part of their deal with Onkyo. Either way i thought id mention that.


If you're looking for a decent marantz receiver, and willing to spend a bit more, the SR4003 @ $350 is a great deal.


Marantz receivers are known for good sound quality, and having robust amps. For example my sr5003 is rated at 90w/channel, but if i drive 5 channels instead of 7, it delivers 103w/channel, as tested by hometheatermag.com. You do give up a bit on features though, as compared to like an Onkyo or Denon, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hrimnir /forum/post/17017723


Hey, wanted to mention i went back on accesories4less.com, apparently they dont ship the Onkyos outside the US, but do ship the Marantz. wondering if its part of their deal with Onkyo. Either way i thought id mention that.


If you're looking for a decent marantz receiver, and willing to spend a bit more, the SR4003 @ $350 is a great deal.


Marantz receivers are known for good sound quality, and having robust amps. For example my sr5003 is rated at 90w/channel, but if i drive 5 channels instead of 7, it delivers 103w/channel, as tested by hometheatermag.com. You do give up a bit on features though, as compared to like an Onkyo or Denon, etc.

I am going to see if I can talk my brother into letting me borrow his "new" Onkyo for the weekend before he sets it up to test drive it on my system to see if there is a difference, I guess that would be the best thing to do. I will give you guys the results should my brother let me borrow it. He is not the most receptive fellow when it comes to things like that so.......


Wish me luck.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by solidape /forum/post/17018028


I am going to see if I can talk my brother into letting me borrow his "new" Onkyo for the weekend before he sets it up to test drive it on my system to see if there is a difference, I guess that would be the best thing to do. I will give you guys the results should my brother let me borrow it. He is not the most receptive fellow when it comes to things like that so.......


Wish me luck.

Lol, i probably wouldnt be so receptive either. Maybe if i didnt have it set up already so i didnt have to redo connections, i'd consider it, but doubtful. There's something about unpacking a brand new component and then testing it on someone's else's system thats just dreadfully wrong lol.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Ahhhh I managed to talk my brother into letting me try out his new Onkyo receiver, perhaps because I was helping him move his speakers and tv. I cracked open the box and put in the wires, cables and plugged it, turned it on and gave it a test. Here are the results:


Just as I had heard at the store, I can hear the imaging soooooo much better with the Onkyo. I basically watched the same scene of Star Wars 3 (in the beginning there is a space fight). It shows two spaceships zooming past the camera. On Sony I always heard the second one zoom by, but it was not that good to be honest. On Onkyo, I heard the first one zoom by before the second one came and made a bigger impression.


It sounded like I could follow the sound from the rear speaker to front, something that did not fare as well on Sony. I also heard lots of little sounds, like cracking, tinkling that I did not hear with the Sony.


The sound quality in itself was not that much different than what the Sony played. However the difference was pretty damn big when it came to imaging and surround sound effects. On my Sony I could barely hear my rear speakers with +5 level. On Onkyo on default settings I could finally hear my rears working.


One thing I do not like about Onkyo is the green display, though its a minor thing. I also miss the blue light that turned on, on my Sony, though it might be there and I do not know how. Per my brothers instructions I promised not to open the bag containing the manual and remote.


It was good to have this itch scratched, apparently having a different receiver will improve on my home theater experience, though not improving sound quality. I just get more quantity I suppose.


Now I guess the next itch that will need scratching will be an expensive one, but it seems that it is something I must do.


Also the Onkyo seemed to bring all my speakers to life. Before on Sony I heard the Klipsch center mostly, but now I can hear the fronts and rears do their thing, something that was not so good with Sony. I get to keep this thing till the weekend so if I learn something else I will follow up.


Thanks to all those that offered your advice.
 
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