If you are using the digital output on a dvd player, you will find very little difference in the audio between different players...If you are talking about using the analog outputs(especially for DVD-A/SACD M/C hi-res), they can make a huge difference in sound between different players based on the quality/accuracy of the DAC's...
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How much does a DVD player affect audio?
Do different players have specific characteristics? Are some bright, others warm, etc. Right now I have the Sony DVP-NS425P. Would there be any benefit to getting a Pioneer DV-578A-S (other than DVD-A and SACD playback)?
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I used to think there would be little difference - hey, they're analog players, right? Due to my beliefs, I've lived with the same $69 Panasonic (open box purchase) DVD player for the past 4 years. Over this same period of time, I've made several receiver upgrades and a few speaker upgrades. Meanwhile, my my old, trusty $69 Panasonic player was still chugging along.
I had just assumed that the ol' Panasonic was doing a fine job and going out and spending $300 or so on a new player would provide little benefit.
I've got to tell you, I was so wrong. In fact, I just hopped on another speaker upgrade late last week. After I pulled the trigger on the purchase, I also purchased a new Panasonic SD97 player. I installed the player with my existing speakers and the sound (in 2-channel stereo with analog connections) came alive. It was if I had made a significant upgrade with my speakers. The sound floored me.
So, here I am. Listening the the new (and improved sounds) in my system, new speakers on the way, old speakers being sold ... and feeling like I just did a senseless speaker upgrade. Oh, I'm sure the new speakers will sound much, much better. However, had I purchased and installed the SD97 a few days earlier, I don't think I'd be going through with a speaker upgrade right now.
For those users who have kept up with CD/DVD player upgrades, the next hop might not improve the sound as much as it did for me. Keep in mind, that my old player was about 4 generations behind the new crop of players - and I couldn't believe what I was missing.
Edit: If you get a chance, head to Audioholics and read their recent review on the new Yamaha DVD/CD player. In the review, the reviewer stated that this was the best sounding sub-$1,000 CD player for Redbook audio. Keep in mind, this player lists at just $329.
I had just assumed that the ol' Panasonic was doing a fine job and going out and spending $300 or so on a new player would provide little benefit.
I've got to tell you, I was so wrong. In fact, I just hopped on another speaker upgrade late last week. After I pulled the trigger on the purchase, I also purchased a new Panasonic SD97 player. I installed the player with my existing speakers and the sound (in 2-channel stereo with analog connections) came alive. It was if I had made a significant upgrade with my speakers. The sound floored me.
So, here I am. Listening the the new (and improved sounds) in my system, new speakers on the way, old speakers being sold ... and feeling like I just did a senseless speaker upgrade. Oh, I'm sure the new speakers will sound much, much better. However, had I purchased and installed the SD97 a few days earlier, I don't think I'd be going through with a speaker upgrade right now.
For those users who have kept up with CD/DVD player upgrades, the next hop might not improve the sound as much as it did for me. Keep in mind, that my old player was about 4 generations behind the new crop of players - and I couldn't believe what I was missing.
Edit: If you get a chance, head to Audioholics and read their recent review on the new Yamaha DVD/CD player. In the review, the reviewer stated that this was the best sounding sub-$1,000 CD player for Redbook audio. Keep in mind, this player lists at just $329.
I was actually wondering if a good quality home theater system with a built-in dvd player might have better sound than a stand along player. Does anyone have any info they could share on this matter?
Good quality and HTIB's dont usually go together mhock....
What kind of system are you referring to when you talk about a good quality HT with a built-in dvd player?
Its important to remember that in general, very few combo units perform anywhere near as well as comparable seperate components. The old saying jack of all trades, master of none applies in almost every case when it comes to this type of combo unit in electronics...
Combo units are good for two things: People that are tight on space, or people that are tight on cash. Hence most of them are of lesser quality.
Bottom line, it alls comes down to the DAC's being used between the source and the output....
What kind of system are you referring to when you talk about a good quality HT with a built-in dvd player?
Its important to remember that in general, very few combo units perform anywhere near as well as comparable seperate components. The old saying jack of all trades, master of none applies in almost every case when it comes to this type of combo unit in electronics...
Combo units are good for two things: People that are tight on space, or people that are tight on cash. Hence most of them are of lesser quality.
Bottom line, it alls comes down to the DAC's being used between the source and the output....
mhock5,
I would say a lot of this depends on what you would be listening to. If it was 2-channel music, it would probably not be better. I'm assuming that since the module would be all-in-one, the manufacturer is not going to run both digital and analog connections between the DVD player and the receiver portion. In that case, they'd probably use the digital connection, so your 2-channel listening would use the digital connection.
Then again, by going with all-in-one, you have to consider that you are making many sacrifices. You are basically putting all of your faith into what the manufacturer has given you. When shopping for individual components, you have the choice to go out and get a receiver that performs well and a DVD/CD player that performs well - and they very well might not be from the same manufacturer.
It also depends on what kind of speakers you'd be running. If you would be using the speakers from a home theater in a box setup, I very much doubt that you'd notice any difference at all. When you start purchasing speaker models further up the food chain, many of them can be quite revealing. They'll just play the garbage you feed them. Garbage in = garbage out.
I would say a lot of this depends on what you would be listening to. If it was 2-channel music, it would probably not be better. I'm assuming that since the module would be all-in-one, the manufacturer is not going to run both digital and analog connections between the DVD player and the receiver portion. In that case, they'd probably use the digital connection, so your 2-channel listening would use the digital connection.
Then again, by going with all-in-one, you have to consider that you are making many sacrifices. You are basically putting all of your faith into what the manufacturer has given you. When shopping for individual components, you have the choice to go out and get a receiver that performs well and a DVD/CD player that performs well - and they very well might not be from the same manufacturer.
It also depends on what kind of speakers you'd be running. If you would be using the speakers from a home theater in a box setup, I very much doubt that you'd notice any difference at all. When you start purchasing speaker models further up the food chain, many of them can be quite revealing. They'll just play the garbage you feed them. Garbage in = garbage out.
Quote:
Thanks for the response. This is exactly what I had thought and just wanted reinforcement of that opinion from some of you guys that know more about this stuff than me.
| Originally posted by CCarncross Good quality and HTIB's dont usually go together mhock.... What kind of system are you referring to when you talk about a good quality HT with a built-in dvd player? Its important to remember that in general, very few combo units perform anywhere near as well as comparable seperate components. The old saying jack of all trades, master of none applies in almost every case when it comes to this type of combo unit in electronics... Combo units are good for two things: People that are tight on space, or people that are tight on cash. Hence most of them are of lesser quality. Bottom line, it alls comes down to the DAC's being used between the source and the output.... |
To answer the question...a lot!
Garbage in, garbage out - digital or analogue.
A dvd player has to read the data , then pass it or process it, without degradation, not many seem to accomplish this and certainly players that have been designed with sound quality in mind bear out the extra effort, with improved sound quality.
I defy anyone to put a £50 player bought from a local retailer and compare it's digital audio output (through a reasonably priced system) to a theta/krell/meridian/arcam/denon etc and then say there is no difference in sound quality, because if digital is digital and only dac's make a difference then there won't be - but there is!
The transport, internal components, power supply and even connectors will all affect the quality and accuracy of audio to some extent.
M
Garbage in, garbage out - digital or analogue.
A dvd player has to read the data , then pass it or process it, without degradation, not many seem to accomplish this and certainly players that have been designed with sound quality in mind bear out the extra effort, with improved sound quality.
I defy anyone to put a £50 player bought from a local retailer and compare it's digital audio output (through a reasonably priced system) to a theta/krell/meridian/arcam/denon etc and then say there is no difference in sound quality, because if digital is digital and only dac's make a difference then there won't be - but there is!
The transport, internal components, power supply and even connectors will all affect the quality and accuracy of audio to some extent.
M
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If that's the case, what type of specs should I look for when picking out a dvd player?
| Originally posted by mark antony The transport, internal components, power supply and even connectors will all affect the quality and accuracy of audio to some extent. M |
Specs are not always that helpful. If you provide your budget, and your needs (do you want an upscaling player, or is audio your main concern), you'll get some useful recommendations.
Well, my budget is $200 +/-. I don't have an HDTV, so upscaling isn't that important (I'm sure I'll need a HD-DVD player, etc when I get one).
Audio is the most important feature at this point. I'd like the dvd player to be my main cd player as well. I don't think I'll be using multi-channel analog outputs unless the difference would be dramatic. I need either digital coax or optical audio out. I also need the player to play both DVD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW.
Where does this leave me?
Audio is the most important feature at this point. I'd like the dvd player to be my main cd player as well. I don't think I'll be using multi-channel analog outputs unless the difference would be dramatic. I need either digital coax or optical audio out. I also need the player to play both DVD-R/RW and DVD+R/RW.
Where does this leave me?
As Bill says your budget is important and whether your listening to cd's/sacd's or dvd movies more than the others or a combination of all three - as well as what your connecting it to.
Personally I have a Denon 3910 as it is an amazing dvd transport and am about to get it's audio componants upgraded to improve the digital audio output for connecting to my Krell system.
M
Personally I have a Denon 3910 as it is an amazing dvd transport and am about to get it's audio componants upgraded to improve the digital audio output for connecting to my Krell system.
M
To be honest there isn't going to be a huge amount of quality choice on that budget, but the cheapest denon 1910 should offer a sound quality higher than your average mass produced or ultra-cheap players. Best bet is to demo a few models at your local retailer.
M
M
Quote:
Are you suggesting that there is a difference when passing a digital audio signal from the DVD player to the pre/pro or receiver?
| Originally posted by mark antony To answer the question...a lot! Garbage in, garbage out - digital or analogue. A dvd player has to read the data , then pass it or process it, without degradation, not many seem to accomplish this and certainly players that have been designed with sound quality in mind bear out the extra effort, with improved sound quality. I defy anyone to put a £50 player bought from a local retailer and compare it's digital audio output (through a reasonably priced system) to a theta/krell/meridian/arcam/denon etc and then say there is no difference in sound quality, because if digital is digital and only dac's make a difference then there won't be - but there is! The transport, internal components, power supply and even connectors will all affect the quality and accuracy of audio to some extent. M |
Either, whatever your sending a dvd players digital output too, a player from one of the brands mentioned (and others) will sound better than an off the shelf or cheap mass market japanese player - which is why you can buy a Theta or Krell et al dvd player for £5K plus.
It's not just the analogue outputs that are much better, everything is affected by it's better power supplies, wiring, connectors, chassis dampening, shielding,....
As I said go to a dealer that sells this gear and get them to demonstrate a medium priced hi-fi/surround sound system with a cheap dvd player and an expensive one, digital sound output only - on both music and films and let your ears tell you which sounds better.
M
It's not just the analogue outputs that are much better, everything is affected by it's better power supplies, wiring, connectors, chassis dampening, shielding,....
As I said go to a dealer that sells this gear and get them to demonstrate a medium priced hi-fi/surround sound system with a cheap dvd player and an expensive one, digital sound output only - on both music and films and let your ears tell you which sounds better.
M
So you are saying that the Dolby Digital or DTS bitstream coming out of a high-end DVD player will be superior to one coming out of a $39 DVD player?
I don't intend on baiting anyone here.
In fact, Dolby Digital and DTS are encoded and compressed digital bitstreams. If they are not transported with 100% precision, the bitstream can't be decoded. When a physical limitation does impair the bitstream, you will notice it as complete drop-outs, not subtle variations in tone or detail.
In fact, Dolby Digital and DTS are encoded and compressed digital bitstreams. If they are not transported with 100% precision, the bitstream can't be decoded. When a physical limitation does impair the bitstream, you will notice it as complete drop-outs, not subtle variations in tone or detail.
I've heard it myself. I didn't use to believe there was a big difference in sound quality with digital out - but there is. I used to have a ES9000 player, then a Samsung 931 - there was a noticeable downgrade in audio. I then switched to a $2000 Cary Audio DVD player, and the difference in sound was so dramatic, I got rid of the upscaling Samsung 931. To my surprise, the difference in video quality went the other way also, with the non-upscaling Cary player kicking butt on the Samsung.
I shouldn't have been suprised, but I was. Obviously for music, the Cary also whomps all over the ES3000 and the 931. As a DVD player, it also fully performs as a high end CD player.
I shouldn't have been suprised, but I was. Obviously for music, the Cary also whomps all over the ES3000 and the 931. As a DVD player, it also fully performs as a high end CD player.
One other interesting thing I noticed was that in analog out, the 931 had a unfocused, slightly hollow sound (that was still not bad for its price). When I played it using coax out for DVD it still had those same sonic qualities. Theoritically I have no idea why that would be, but it clearly was.
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