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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi All-


Sorry if this question has been asked before-


I'm looking into a few different brands- Denon & Pioneer Elite. The Denon (AVR-3310CI) weighs almost 10 pounds less than the Elite Unit I'm looking at (either the SC-25 or VSC-23XTH). I'm assuming that what is causing the higher weight in the Elite is simply a heavier power supply- so my question is, does this really matter?


Thanks all.
 

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If we are talking about conventional class AB designs, the power transformer is the heaviest single component. The size of the power supply is directly related to the amount of power the power supply can supply.


It's really that simple.


If you want specifics though, you will have to look at reliable benchmarks.


I would like to see every AV maker post the VA rating of the transformer as I think that would be more useful info than the power ratings they publish - which typically don't tell the whole story. Neither would the VA rating, but I have to think it would be more helpful.
 

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For me it is a negative because I favor Class D amp designs which are lighter than Class AB or Class A.


You really have to know a bit more than just weight.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ehlarson /forum/post/16922391


For me it is a negative because I favor Class D amp designs which are lighter than Class AB or Class A.


You really have to know a bit more than just weight.

Correcto..

There are some excellant, sonic-quality Class D solutions available now..

However if they do use an SMPS power supply, typically the tuners are less usuable due to higher RFI & EMI.. Plus the signal-to-noise specs for the audio & video circuits often suffer as well..


Just my $0.025...
 

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Yeap, even class d relies on good power supplies as in the case of the Onkyo TX-L55 and those do weigh more than most. But don't forget the weight of the heatsink as well. Bottomline, you can't tell a component's SQ from weight.
 

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With just a handful of manufacturers using class D amps in their AVRs, the discussion of them within the context of this thread is nearly moot.


Since the vast majority of AVRs use standard class A/B amps, MJH was correct in his first post.


But as Veda said, weight is not a determination of SQ. It is however a determination of power output, notwithstanding class D designs.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie /forum/post/16924716


It is however a determination of power output, notwithstanding class D designs.

Assuming of course the chassis isn't overdone with thick plates and heatsinks as to look impressive. The gut can be crap but the cosmetics wonderful. Though this is usually reserved in 2CH amps.
 

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i always thought class d were power amp...

combined with the preamp amp the combined weight would usually weigh double weight of the standard avr.. to add new things sometimes other things get removed and that is usually not for the better in some cases..
 

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If all else is equal, then a heavy unit should be better.


There in this to make money! If they could make it lighter and sound the same, they would.





Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_sonus /forum/post/16917840


Hi All


Sorry if this question has been asked before-


I'm looking into a few different brands- Denon & Pioneer Elite. The Denon (AVR-3310CI) weighs almost 10 pounds less than the Elite Unit I'm looking at (either the SC-25 or VSC-23XTH). I'm assuming that what is causing the higher weight in the Elite is simply a heavier power supply- so my question is, does this really matter?


Thanks all.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OppoPX14 /forum/post/16925837


If all else is equal, then a heavy unit should be better.


There in this to make money! If they could make it lighter and sound the same, they would.

The heavier ones make better paper weights and boat anchors!

HERB
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OppoPX14 /forum/post/16925837


There in this to make money! If they could make it lighter and sound the same, they would.

don't kid yourself. they know that people equate "weight" with "better"... there's been more than few amps taken apart that are basically empty in the case with a big hunk of metal sitting in the bottom of it to add heft...
 

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Then they must've put a LEAD BRICK in my sc-09 because it weights a TON!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malcolm_B /forum/post/16926231


Then they must've put a LEAD BRICK in my sc-09 because it weights a TON!

lol... considering i practically herniated myself getting my sc-09 upstairs and into the rack, i'm thinking TWO lead bricks...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OppoPX14 /forum/post/16925837


If all else is equal, then a heavy unit should be better.


There in this to make money! If they could make it lighter and sound the same, they would.

Not necessarily true, it's somewhat/all about perception: Remember that at one time, vacuum cleaner manufacturers vied with each other to make their own models loudest because customers equated loudness with suction...
 

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I like how people slam car doors to test build quality - tinny sound = bad. The sound quality of a door slam is nothing to do with anything except the amount of asphalt sound deadening material inside it. All car doors are hollow sheet metal shells of similar gauge regardless of the price of the car.


As for the weight of AVR's, while heavier can mean bigger transformers and more power, nothing is absolute. Switching power supplies don't use transformers and can be much lighter for a given power output. Heat sinks may be smaller and lighter if fan cooling is used. The heavier is better crowd can be a little misguided sometimes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAD Paradigm /forum/post/16926482


I like how people slam car doors to test build quality - tinny sound = bad. The sound quality of a door slam is nothing to do with anything except the amount of asphalt sound deadening material inside it. All car doors are hollow sheet metal shells of similar gauge regardless of the price of the car.

ummm... no....


obviously spoken by someone who hasn't done much car audio installation...
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Thanks for the replies everyone- all very good points. I suppose I won't really know until I try them out- unfortunately the SC-25 isn't in stock yet so I wasn't able to compare with the 3310CI today- will have to hold off a week or two.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj /forum/post/16926217


don't kid yourself. they know that people equate "weight" with "better"... there's been more than few amps taken apart that are basically empty in the case with a big hunk of metal sitting in the bottom of it to add heft...

But in most cases, there using a larger power transformer. This is where most of an AVR's weight comes from.
 
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