[wsc3]

To All,

I have been a " Samsung DLP owner for the last two weeks. The HDTV STB comes tomorrow from Cablevision. How much if a "step up" in picture quality am I going to notice?

With a regular STB, I see every flaw in the picture. The Samsung is a beautiful product and I am quite thrilled with it but with a regular STB, it is like sitting real close and seeing every picture defect. Let me know! I cant wait to see HDTV sports!

-=WSC3=-

 

[gakon]

It'll be great. Too bad you didn't get to see yesterday's game in HD (I'm assuming, by your location, that you cared). Better than DVD's.

 

[wsc3]

Yes it would have been great to see them! I am a hockey fan and hockey in HD is amazing. I saw a few minutes of it at MSG and it is great. I cant wait!!!!!!

 

[stickyfingers]

Know, of course, that you'll only see an improved picture on HD content. The STB will make no difference on the 90% of the programming that is in SD - but that other 10%....


Brian

 

[wsc3]

Thanks for the reply.

I hear the digital channels come in with DVD quality.

That will be fun. I am looking at a Pioneer receiver to handle the sound either a VSX 49txi or a 59txi. Also, I will be wiring this room with the Mirage Omnisats for 7.1 sound

Right now with the non HD STB, the Samsung is a big blurry average looking television.

Cablevision has put me off twice stating they don't have the boxes in stock. Hope they don't pull that again!

 

[Ken H]

Be more specific with topic titles. See my edit.

 

[Ken H]

Standard TV - less than 400,000 pixels

EDTV or progressive scan DVD - less than 700,000 pixels

HDTV - 1.8 to 2.0 million pixels


In short, a big difference.

 

[Marissadad]

wsc3, don't be fooled by "digital" quality. Dish is 100% pure digital and my locals are unwatchable. It all depends on how bad they compress the signal. I really doubt they will look as good as a DVD, even SD digital OTA channels can look like crap.


For example: Yesterday I was watching the Blazer game and comparing Dish local, OTA Analog and OTA digital. Guess which picture had the most detail? OTA Analog. Even OTA digital can suffer from lack of detail.

 

[Vlad_Dracule]

Quote:

Originally posted by wsc3 Yes it would have been great to see them! I am a hockey fan and hockey in HD is amazing. I saw a few minutes of it at MSG and it is great. I cant wait!!!!!!

That is my ultimate goal (hockey in HD)! If only HD receivers werent so damned $$$$$$!!! I'm hoping I can find a fairly cheap one before or just after playoffs but I doubt I will .

 

[Sandpiper]

Quote:

Originally posted by Marissadad wsc3, don't be fooled by "digital" quality. Dish is 100% pure digital and my locals are unwatchable. It all depends on how bad they compress the signal. I really doubt they will look as good as a DVD, even SD digital OTA channels can look like crap. For example: Yesterday I was watching the Blazer game and comparing Dish local, OTA Analog and OTA digital. Guess which picture had the most detail? OTA Analog. Even OTA digital can suffer from lack of detail.

I agree............. mostly.


My observation is this: In general, digital channels are clearer and sharper than analog, and in general, HDTV is clearer and sharper than standard digital. There are exceptions, though.


However, when HDTV is done right, there is absolutely no comparison to anything else, except for front row seats. And it's better than front row seats. If I didn't know better, I'd swear I could reach out and touch the action. I can't wait for ten more years when all channels will be HDTV.

 

[Marissadad]

Sandpiper, with HD I agree, but I was comparing Dish digital vs OTA SD digital and Analog. Unfortunately, our NBC does not carry the Blazers in HD so their normal SD feed really stinks, I'm better off watching in Analog. Now, CBS football, HDNET Hockey, YEAH! They rock!

 

[Fatso]

I think the difference between HD sports and analog (or digital, for that matter) is almost as significant as the difference between black-and-white and color. It is the whole reason I built my theater. Even if it is only a few games a week.

 

[mike greer]

Don't get me started on the "100% digital quality" BS. Digitial cable, Dish Network and DirecTv all over-compress the video. If you compare over-the-air analog with any "100% digital quality" signal, the analog will always have more detail in it. If you can get a clean analog signal that is the way to go.


As for HDTV it can look very good - even HD transfers of movies from the '70s look pretty darn good. I think you will be very happy with REAL HD but don't count on any improvement on the SD stuff. That stuff will always look like crap.

 

[amnesiacv2]

Let me just say that I all but refuse to watch standard-def programming on my 47" Panny RPTV after getting Dish HD. Yeah, I have all of 4 stations to choose from but if one isn't playing what I want then I just watch a DVD. Standard-def is just painful.

 

[wsc3]

Thanks everyone, most appreciated!

If all goes well, I just watched my last hockey game in standard definition. This is great info. I will let you know how sweet it is tomorrow.

 

[Marissadad]

Quote:

Originally posted by amnesiacv2 Let me just say that I all but refuse to watch standard-def programming on my 47" Panny RPTV after getting Dish HD. Yeah, I have all of 4 stations to choose from but if one isn't playing what I want then I just watch a DVD. Standard-def is just painful.

I agree with you on that account, I've dropped all Dish SD programming except for my locals. The only reason I keep locals is for the Guide data and my PVR. In my HT on my 110" screen, I only watch HD & DVD. I don't even watch SD OTA digital because the quality just isn't there. (Looks great on my 13" monitor though).

 

[John Mason]

Quote:

Don't get me started on the "100% digital quality" BS. Digitial cable, Dish Network and DirecTv all over-compress the video. If you compare over-the-air analog with any "100% digital quality" signal, the analog will always have more detail in it. If you can get a clean analog signal that is the way to go.

Can't agree with this OTA vs. digital comparison with my TW digital-cable system. OTA analog NTSC is ~440X480 (4:3) and it's heavily filtered with the color and luma (B&W) jumbled together, creating NTSC's well-known composite-signal artifacts. By contrast, digital Rec. 601 is 720X480, maximum, (667X480 limiting resolution without oversampling), with the luma and color distinctly separate if this YCbCr signal isn't derived from analog sources. G. Rogers'

horizontal-resolution table , about 1/2 down the page in this article, contrasts these specs with those of HDTV.


There are exceptions, of course, but I usually find that instant A-B comparisons of digital and analog channels shows that MPEG-2 compressed digital cable provides more detail. It's the same MPEG-2 compression over cable that delivers H/DTV, except that extended-definition ATSC is 704 or 640X480 (theoretical), is frequently upconverted to 1920X1080i by networks or stations, and has up to 19 million bits per second (Mbps) allocated to it (~2 channels per 6-MHz cable slot) versus SDTV's ~5 Mbps (at ~8 channels per 6-MHz cable slot). The much higher bit rate for ATSC results in richer more-detailed color, I find. (The specs for full HD, and the limiting resolvable detail, are shown in Rogers' table and other sources.) -- John

 

[mike greer]

John-


If you only go by the resolution - digital would always be better than analog. But - in the real world - the MPEG compression used by Dish Network, DirecTv and many digital cable systems is so compressed that the detail is lost. The actual resolution being passed from the source to a TV is much lower than the spec. To see what I mean all you have to do is compare the credits at the end of a movie... On SD Satellite or Digital cable in many cases you can't read the text - on a good analog over-the-air channel you can. Another example is a football game - compare OTA with a Non-HD Satellite or Digital Cable channel - watch grass seem to move around in big blotches on the digital - smooth consistant green on OTA.


HDTV is a good example of how good the compression can work but it all comes down to how much bandwidth the provider wants to give a particular channel.


A good comparison on Dish network would be to compare a PPV channel with a shopping channel or the VH1 Classic. They are all technically the same resolution but there is an obvious difference in picture quality. The more they compress the signal the worse the picture but the resolution is the same if you count dots - but the detail of the source is lost.


I have attached a picture with an exaggerated example of what I mean. This sample has two pictures that are both 274 x 167 pixels. Obviously the bottom picture doesn't look as good as the top but they are the same resolution.


The providers, at least with satellite, just compress as much as they can so they can get more channels in the same bandwidth. I believe they crank the compression up until they get the size they need or until people start complaining. My neighbor thought he had a great "100% digital picture". While watching a local football game I had him switch back and forth between the OTA signal and Dish Networks Salt Lake City local channel. Huge difference in picture quality. He now has an antenna and watches the locals OTA rather than paying Dish Network to slaughter them for him.


I am not saying that digital can't look good - I am just saying that it doesn't necessarily look better and usually doesn't. More compression = more money for the providers.


-Mike

 

[mike greer]

Sorry - here is the exaggerated compression picture - both pictures are the same resolution....

 

[OakIris]

I'm very new at this, have just had my HDTV monitor since Saturday, but have digital cable, and have been somewhat disappointed with the picture quality - seems very pixilated, not nice and sharp - the PQ was a lot better on my 27" Sony. I haven't done a lot of tweaking yet, but hope I can get the SD picture quality to improve. I don't have an antenna so have no way of getting analog signals at this time.


I won't have my HDTV STB until this coming Saturday; hope the HD picture quality makes the expense of the rptv worth it!