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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Check this article out. It makes a lot of good points, and also offers some advice on how to avoid being tricked by the intentional bright lighting, into purchasing a display that will look like crap in you home setting.

http://hdguru.com/


I must say, love him or hate him, HDGuru deserves credit for at least doing some reporting on these type of consumer topics, since the mainstream media no longer delves into such issues.


While at the site, you should read his other investigative reports, such as his findings on how Best Buy's Black Tie Extended Warranty contains a lot of loopholes, which contradict what they claim in their promotional pitches and pamphlets.


Buyer beware. Read all the fine print on the contract, before you sign anything.

http://hdguru.com/extended-warrantie...ve-report/460/
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland /forum/post/16969479


Check this article out. It makes a lot of good points, and also offers some advice on how to avoid being tricked by the intentional bright lighting, into purchasing a display that will look like crap in you home setting.

http://hdguru.com/


I must say, love him or hate him, HDGuru deserves credit for at least doing some reporting on these type of consumer topics, since the mainstream media no longer delves into such issues.


While at the site, you should read his other investigative reports, such as his findings on how Best Buy's Black Tie Extended Warranty contains a lot of loopholes, which contradict what they claim in their promotional pitches and pamphlets.


Buyer beware. Read all the fine print on the contract, before you sign anything.

http://hdguru.com/extended-warrantie...ve-report/460/

While its a fun read and certainly makes you feel better about your tv and less excited about the retailer. I posted this comment to the article which I would like to post here too.


I worked at some of these stores. While I dont doubt that some pull these tricks to direct thier bottom line. I can assure you that most of them simply thow sets up generally in size order to display what they have. Pretty much willy nilly.


The lighting is more often than not a result of trying to pull you in from the isle to the tv dpet area in places like sears. I know for a fact thats what we used to do. trist me the idiots that generally manage the departments really arent this smart.


The other thing that contributes to the brighter light is theft. you cannot afford to have an area with low light like that in sears walmart target. you can perhaps in a smaller store monitor a magnolia area. but in larger retail stores theft will kill you. If you have one low lit area thieves WILL find it.


Again not saying that this light use doesn't happen. I am sure especially in your area NY N Jersey. But in most other areas of the county not nearly as much
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I had a local Sears Manager tell me that he would like to provide a dimmer setting in the Flat Panel area, but he was shot down. He was told that the lighting standards for the flat panel display areas, is set by Corporate Headquarters, and that a lot of research had gone into what worked best, from a sales tracking point. Who knows; but regardless, all the other points that HDguru makes about how the lighting can sucker a lot of people into buying an inferior display, just because it looks so vibrant in an vastly over illuminated display store setting, are worth taking into consideration.


If some people try his tip of how to examine the black levels, in a bright store, I would like to hear back from them, if it helped them to make better evaluations.
 

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According to the article, retail stores would prefer to sell low-priced sets, which have lower profit margins. Is this true? It's rather counter-intuitive. Supposedly, people generally are prepared to pay a fixed, comparatively high amount, and the less they spend on the TV itself, the more they can be induced to spend on service contracts or accessories. The truth of this is also far from obvious.
 

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As someone who works in home theater sales, I'd have to agree with the point that it's better for the store's profit margin to sell a lower-priced set along with accessories or services than a higher-priced set with nothing else. Many customers do, in fact, come into the store with a fixed amount that they're willing or able to spend.


Most customers, however, do see the difference in picture quality between the cheap sets and the high-priced ones. The only problem I have is that the lighting is just too bright to show off the benefits of plasma TVs. The general public already has heard "lots of bad things about plasmas", and it's generally an uphill battle even if it becomes clear that a plasma TV would fit their needs better. But I don't see this as part of a grand conspiracy.


I actually had a customer with a set budget buy an open item 52" Samsung B550 even after I showed him the 50" Panasonic G10 we had on sale for less than the open item. Don't underestimate how much the public likes that superbright image at the cost of all else.
 

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To be honest, all the Pioneer plasmas, and now Samsung plasmas, I've seen on the BB show floor look excellent. Black bars look nice and deep, and the image is plenty bright relative to LCD. It's only Panasonic plasmas that suffer in that environment with the AR filter they use, and that's not the store's fault. Even in Magnolia rooms the Pannys can look horrible if one of those small overhead lights is facing it, while other plasmas look great. I think Panasonic really needs to use that Z1 AR coating on all their plasmas next year, because the current one is really damaging the perception of plasma in bright rooms. They're basically the image of plasma TV now with Pioneer gone.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige /forum/post/16970668


To be honest, all the Pioneer plasmas, and now Samsung plasmas, I've seen on the BB show floor look excellent. Black bars look nice and deep, and the image is plenty bright relative to LCD. It's only Panasonic plasmas that suffer in that environment with the AR filter they use, and that's not the store's fault. Even in Magnolia rooms the Pannys can look horrible if one of those small overhead lights is facing it, while other plasmas look great. I think Panasonic really needs to use that Z1 AR coating on all their plasmas next year, because the current one is really damaging the perception of plasma in bright rooms. They're basically the image of plasma TV now with Pioneer gone.

All plasmas need that coating to show there standard of excellence. If all models don't include that for a certain companies TV's someone isn't doing there homework.
 

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I actually just got back from a local bestbuy and was listening into a conversation a family was having with one of the blue shirts. I was actually happy with what i heard. He was explaining to them how drastically different the pictures look under the stupid white lights in the store (and the dynamic settings) versus home lighting conditions. Instead he was directing them to look at motion handling, detail/clarity etc. I stopped eves-dropping slightly after, but it sounded like another family going to plasma haha.


That being said, today was the first day when I started to realize where even in store lighting, alot of units almost looked too bright to me (glowing faces, etc), whereas the slightly dimmer sets showed more skin detail. (especially during the clips of taylor swift and telemundo)


also, apart from the lighting: i wish the big box stores would send better feeds to alot of their sets. The stupid "Sharp Baseball Clip" shows so many artifacts in the crowd, its scary.
 

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I think it is total nonsense to to think that these companys are out to get plasma, and purposefully increase the overhead lighting to shun people away from plasma.


Has anyone ever walked into a Magnolia, where all the high end panels are located? What is the majority? It's plasma! Magnolia products have a much higher margin than what is carried on the regular floor, which begs question, why on earth would do intentionally push "inferior" displays (which even sounds absolutely ridiculous)?


As to the tidbit about BB protections plans, I couldn't tell you, since I've never purchased one, nor looked at one of those pamphlets.
 

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That was a silly article. Often times retail light levels are high to prevent theft. Demo rooms are open to prevent theft. Fry's is one of the only major retailers to have a somewhat darkened show room. They have an aggressive loss prevention team though so they really can't be compared to Best Buy, Walmart, etc.. I really doubt there's any sort of conspiracy because frankly when most retailers demo tvs they're demoed in torch mode right out of the box and just put on display. Random customers might mess with settings but that's why most tvs have a demo mode that resets the video settings after a specific amount of time.


As for the maximizing profit ideas go that's pretty false as well. Retailers want to move higher margined sets and if they advertise a lower-end tv it's to get you into the store. It's the job of the sales person to move you up to the better set (higher margin). The idea that they want the lower-end set moved to free up spending money for accessories is silly too because most want you to get the better set AND add accessories, not limit their profit margins to sets bringing in roughly single digit margins.


Aside from a few good points that article really felt uninformed.
 

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I didn't read the article but my at my local BB the TV's are all lined up against the back wall and that area is dimmer than the rest of the store. I spent a great deal of time there this weekend and the plasma TV's looked just as bright as the LCD's in most cases. My wife was even surprised when I showed her which were the plasmas. I wouldn't say the few BB salespeople I talked to where experts but the echoed the same sentiments that someone earlier posted. While I was looking I showed my wife what the LG LED looked like in standard vs torch mode. She couldn't believe the difference.


I also find it hard to believe there is some grand conspiracy. If anything I would blame it one the manufacturers just as much. Their store demo modes automatically put the TV in torch mode. I found it funny that the manual for my plasma even pointed this out by saying not to select the demo mode because it was setup to make the TV look better in the store vs the home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fanaticalism /forum/post/16972759


I think it is total nonsense to to think that these companys are out to get plasma, and purposefully increase the overhead lighting to shun people away from plasma.


Has anyone ever walked into a Magnolia, where all the high end panels are located? What is the majority? It's plasma! Magnolia products have a much higher margin than what is carried on the regular floor, which begs question, why on earth would do intentionally push "inferior" displays (which even sounds absolutely ridiculous)?


As to the tidbit about BB protections plans, I couldn't tell you, since I've never purchased one, nor looked at one of those pamphlets.

He did point to the dimmed setting in the Magnolia room, to put the high end displays in the proper lighting. You must have missed that. That was one of his points. For the high price units, they display them properly, but for the lower priced units, they do not. Does Magnolia put all Plasma displays in the dim room, or are the less expensive ones in the regular store locations? Does the bright store settings allow people to get a true depiction of how the will look under less severe lighting in their homes, or not. Pay attention to the part where he explains how it is almost impossible to get a real sense of black levels under those banks of glaring overhead lights.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by GScott /forum/post/16973988


I didn't read the article but my at my local BB the TV's are all lined up against the back wall and that area is dimmer than the rest of the store. I spent a great deal of time there this weekend and the plasma TV's looked just as bright as the LCD's in most cases. My wife was even surprised when I showed her which were the plasmas. I wouldn't say the few BB salespeople I talked to where experts but the echoed the same sentiments that someone earlier posted. While I was looking I showed my wife what the LG LED looked like in standard vs torch mode. She couldn't believe the difference.


I also find it hard to believe there is some grand conspiracy. If anything I would blame it one the manufacturers just as much. Their store demo modes automatically put the TV in torch mode. I found it funny that the manual for my plasma even pointed this out by saying not to select the demo mode because it was setup to make the TV look better in the store vs the home.

Which came first, the bright store lights or the Plasma makers adding the torch mode store feature.


The manufacturers had to add that feature, just because the stores were not showing their plasma products under proper lightiing conditions. The Plasma makers had to create that extra feature just have a chance in those bright store settings.


You wife being surprised that Plasmas looked so bright, actually proves that point. She clearly was used to having seen them in the past,under the bright lights, as been dull looking. Now, because of the torch setting, store mode, which she would never set to a home, she suddenly was impressed. How sad is that.
 

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As I posted in another thread. I think the biggest thing killing them especially pannies are the way they are hooked up.


Since shopping this past week I noticed that BB, Magnolia, Sears ETC all have them hooked up thru Coax.


this hinders the plasmas pretty badly and Pannies I noticed especially. The reason is that The enhance black modes are disabled. The options are greyed out as are many of the picture enhancing features when using this connection.


Unless you do see a panny now and then on an endcap with a blu ray. Then even in bright light you can see a huge difference where the plasma comes up quite well even in store.
 
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