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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i purchased and loved the 3900,but thinkit shares the same speaker setup similiarities of the RX-V3800 and RX-V1900


but it seems.... er.... """Huston we've got a Problem""""

doesn't support satellites with active subs.


there seems no setting for main speakers to use subwoofer on stereo or pure direct

so how to use satellites like klipsch and the likes.....


ANY ONE HAVE OR EXPERIMENTED HOW TO ACTIVATE THE SUB ON STEREO AND PURE DIRECT PLEASE MAKE KNOW,

THANKS
 

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There is no processing in "pure audio" mode, that includes bass management, so no sub. No way around it. If your mains are set to small, you should get sub output in both stereo, and straight modes. I do.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoos /forum/post/16912375


i purchased and loved the 3900,but thinkit shares the same speaker setup similiarities of the RX-V3800 and RX-V1900


but it seems.... er.... """Huston we've got a Problem""""

doesn't support satellites with active subs.


there seems no setting for main speakers to use subwoofer on stereo or pure direct

so how to use satellites like klipsch and the likes.....


ANY ONE HAVE OR EXPERIMENTED HOW TO ACTIVATE THE SUB ON STEREO AND PURE DIRECT PLEASE MAKE KNOW,

THANKS

I don't have any of those receivers, but I believe what you describe is common of the pure/direct mode operation.


That mode typically mean no digital processing and the crossover/bass managment is typically done in the digital domain, thus sub out is not available on most(all?) gear in the pure/direct mode.

Afaik, your choices are not run in pure/direct mode, or connect the sub via the speaker level connections if you have that option, then set the fronts to large and turn off the sub in the receiver's setup.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 /forum/post/16912644


There is no processing in "pure audio" mode, that includes bass management, so no sub. No way around it. If your mains are set to small, you should get sub output in both stereo, and straight modes. I do.

done exactly that, but sub stilll not working



WilliamZX11 ... are you using RX-V3900, yr user name implies Its Z11

any particular setup if it can be done..

thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 /forum/post/16912649


I don't have any of those receivers, but I believe what you describe is common of the pure/direct mode operation.
Afaik, your choices are not run in pure/direct mode, or connect the sub via the speaker level connections if you have that option, then set the fronts to large and turn off the sub in the receiver's setup.

If i do connect the mains satellites to speaker input of subs, then the rest of the sat's will not be using the sub's in 5.1 or 7.1 modes


and if i follow this setup, i wll have to invest in another subwoofer for the .1 channel,

what i am getting is the CS Audica 5.1,so the overall sub-satellites will not be matching


1) Audica main sat >> input to Audica sub spk in

2) Audica centre, rear >>> integrate with another sub (5.1/6.1/7.1) setup


thanks
 

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I agree 100% with what whoaru99 & WilliamZX11 said. I also am not familiar with Yamaha products, however "Pure or Direct" modes almost always turn-off, or bypass, bass management systems (BMS). This is done because audiophiles do not want the A to D to A conversions that are needed to use a BMS. Therefore, your sub output will be dead. You can use the speaker level inputs on your subwoofer as whoaru99 suggests, but this adds all kinds of other issues that most folks will want to avoid (as you have already mentioned).


To use either Pure or Direct audio you need full range speakers on your main two front channels. Even if you do, many of us do not like to use either of these modes because all audio processing is turned-off including things like Audyssey.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sptrout /forum/post/16913147


I agree 100% with what whoaru99 & WilliamZX11 said. I also am not familiar with Yamaha products, however "Pure or Direct" modes almost always turn-off, or bypass, bass management systems (BMS). This is done because audiophiles do not want the A to D to A conversions that are needed to use a BMS. Therefore, your sub output will be dead. You can use the speaker level inputs on your subwoofer as whoaru99 suggests, but this adds all kinds of other issues that most folks will want to avoid (as you have already mentioned).


To use either Pure or Direct audio you need full range speakers on your main two front channels. Even if you do, many of us do not like to use either of these modes because all audio processing is turned-off including things like Audyssey.

I totally understand, that means to say yamaha AVR's does not support satellites for pure audio quality sound..

i want a, all in one AVR, and dislike a separate integrated for CD player,thats y i purchased this 3900

so guess i am stuck with this issue afterall



RX-V3900 uses the best components for its pure direct stage for sonic qualities

seriously i dont understand why Yamaha wants us to use fullrange floorstand spks as main, and not bookshelf, or satellites to get the best analog sound on pure direct modes.

It really contradict back their R&D to their moto "Natural Sounding" amp
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoos /forum/post/16913224


I totally understand, that means to say yamaha AVR's does not support satellites for pure audio quality sound..

i want a, all in one AVR, and dislike a separate integrated for CD player,thats y i purchased this 3900

so guess i am stuck with this issue afterall



RX-V3900 uses the best components for its pure direct stage for sonic qualities

seriously i dont understand why Yamaha wants us to use fullrange floorstand spks as main, and not bookshelf, or satellites to get the best analog sound on pure direct modes.

It really contradict back their R&D to their moto "Natural Sounding" amp

One thing I forgot to mention is that standard two-channel stereo should work with the subwoofer still working normally, and you should be able to use other digital processing to expand the 2-channel audio to multiple channels if desired (assuming your AVR has this capability). It is only when you switch to Pure or Direct will the BMS be turned-off with all other digital processing modes. Someone familiar with Yamaha products will have to explain how to turn-on these modes in your AVR.


Your comment that "seriously i dont understand why Yamaha wants us to use fullrange floorstand spks as main, and not bookshelf, or satellites to get the best analog sound on pure direct modes" is not correct. It is not a Yamaha thing that digital processing is turned-off when using Pure or Direct modes, but it is an industry standard (as far as I know).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sptrout /forum/post/16913425


Your comment that "seriously i dont understand why Yamaha wants us to use fullrange floorstand spks as main, and not bookshelf, or satellites to get the best analog sound on pure direct modes" is not correct. It is not a Yamaha thing that digital processing is turned-off when using Pure or Direct modes, but it is an industry standard (as far as I know).

Sorry for bring this into the thread, i am still a diehard Yammy fan


i was shown, the Denon 1909, support this mode, under custom setting, and in stereo or direct mode,the setup has the option to output the LFE to sub....(turn ON) be it selection for Large or Small speakers

so it is not a industrial Norm.... its just another feature
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoos /forum/post/16913600


Sorry for bring this into the thread, i am still a diehard Yammy fan


i was shown, the Denon 1909, support this mode, under custom setting, and in stereo or direct mode,the setup has the option to output the LFE to sub....(turn ON) be it selection for Large or Small speakers

so it is not a industrial Norm.... its just another feature

You may have misunderstood what they were showing you. I use to have a Denon 3300 and it would not do what you said a 1909 was doing. Direct and Stereo modes are two different animals. With Stereo, all digital processing remains active, when in Direct Mode all digital processing is turned-off.


BTW - - Direct Mode is normally only used for the 5.1 or 7.1 analog input and the subwoofer (LFE channel will be active, although BMS will be turned-off). This mode is/was popular with folks playing DVD-A & SACD disks. Pure Mode can be used for any input, but all digital processing, including BMS, is turned-off.


Another point; the LFE channel is only the ".1" channel from DVD, Blu-ray, DVD-A, & SACD disks. The subwoofer should be active when playing anything with a "x.1" audio track.


The kink is when you use the BMS to crossover low frequencies from all the main channels to the LFE output. This is the standard and recommended setup for nearly all systems, even those with full range speakers on at least some of the channels. It is in this situation if you switch to Pure Mode the BMS is shut-off and full range audio is sent to all main channels. Under this condition the subwoofer will only be used to reproduce any audio that is on the LFE track (if there is one). If there is no LFE track, then the subwoofer will be silent.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sptrout /forum/post/16913868


You may have misunderstood what they were showing you. I use to have a Denon 3300 and it would not do what you said a 1909 was doing. Direct and Stereo modes are two different animals. With Stereo, all digital processing remains active, when in Direct Mode all digital processing is turned-off.


BTW - - Direct Mode is normally only used for the 5.1 or 7.1 analog input and the subwoofer (LFE channel will be active, although BMS will be turned-off). This mode is/was popular with folks playing DVD-A & SACD disks. Pure Mode can be used for any input, but all digital processing, including BMS, is turned-off.


Another point; the LFE channel is only the ".1" channel from DVD, Blu-ray, DVD-A, & SACD disks. The subwoofer should be active when playing anything with a "x.1" audio track.

The kink is when you use the BMS to crossover low frequencies from all the main channels to the LFE output. This is the standard and recommended setup for nearly all systems, even those with full range speakers on at least some of the channels. It is in this situation if you switch to Pure Mode the BMS is shut-off and full range audio is sent to all main channels. Under this condition the subwoofer will only be used to reproduce any audio that is on the LFE track (if there is one). If there is no LFE track, then the subwoofer will be silent.

seriously i understand every single issue voiced out

but the subwoofer is very important as i want to play CD quality audio in its purest form with satellites,

I am using Floorstand Monitor Audio RS6 now, if i toggle between stereo and pure direct mode, the latter gives a better sound ( not muddy, soundstage and depth stands out) even with the RS6 set to large and the Subwoofer's not in use,

Now i got this Audica CS3 5.1, so if i replace the RS6 with the Audica's and the subwoofer is not firing.... i've got a problem.

Anyway, if you have frens using the Denon, you can try checking out the speaker setup, then you will know what i am trying to stress..

Thanks and hopefully yamaha does a firmware upgrade in future to solve this issue for ppl like me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoos /forum/post/16912896


If i do connect the mains satellites to speaker input of subs, then the rest of the sat's will not be using the sub's in 5.1 or 7.1 modes


and if i follow this setup, i wll have to invest in another subwoofer for the .1 channel,

what i am getting is the CS Audica 5.1,so the overall sub-satellites will not be matching


1) Audica main sat >> input to Audica sub spk in

2) Audica centre, rear >>> integrate with another sub (5.1/6.1/7.1) setup


thanks

As I said, I don't know the unit personally, but I think if you -


1. Set the front speakers to "large"

2. Connect the sub to the receiver's front speaker outputs

3. Connect the front speakers to the sub outputs

4. Set sub to "off" or "none" in receiver configuration

5. Keep center, side, and back speakers at "small"


then...the LFE, front channel bass, and bass from "small" channels should all be played through the sub in 5.1 or 7.1 mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by whoaru99 /forum/post/16917593


As I said, I don't know the unit personally, but I think if you -


1. Set the front speakers to "large"

2. Connect the sub to the receiver's front speaker outputs

3. Connect the front speakers to the sub outputs

4. Set sub to "off" or "none" in receiver configuration

5. Keep center, side, and back speakers at "small"


then...the LFE, front channel bass, and bass from "small" channels should all be played through the sub in 5.1 or 7.1 mode.

yeah,logically, that's another conection way

but will the sound differ, its as though i am using 5/6/7 without the .1 channel for bass(as all LFE rerouted to mains sub)

will the sound be (if not better) the same as other 5.1/7.1 setup??


or should i get another sub for .1 channel to compliment the actual setup??


thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoos /forum/post/16912862


done exactly that, but sub stilll not working



WilliamZX11 ... are you using RX-V3900, yr user name implies Its Z11

any particular setup if it can be done..

thanks

I'm using the RX-V1800. The ZX11 in my user name refers to a motorcycle, my Kawasaki ZX-11D.


Anyways, for two channel music when I want the sub active, I use "Straight" mode, this disables YPAO, but still leaves bass management active. I prefer it over "stereo" mode.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamZX11 /forum/post/16918016


I'm using the RX-V1800. The ZX11 in my user name refers to a motorcycle, my Kawasaki ZX-11D.


Anyways, for two channel music when I want the sub active, I use "Straight" mode, this disables YPAO, but still leaves bass management active. I prefer it over "stereo" mode.

nice bike .....

ok thanks will give it a try tonight, gracious, bro


oh!!!... this Straight Mode ain't better that pure Direct right????

well... Hmm.... at least better than nothing...


Really wonder why yamaha disable this feature, there are still many audiophiles, who still wants simplicity get a GOOD AVR a nice bookshelf speakers and a nice sub for extended bass ( if the need arise )


Well hopefully Yamaha engineers read this thread, and will do something about in for the next firmware upgrade...

addon


i think there is software bugs(using 1.08), i set the mains to small, suddenly the sub turn ON, then i switched it back to large the sub also on


its ok now (hope not for the time being)
now 2 ch stereo and straight also the sub is working (but not pureDirect)

thanks eyeryone,
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoos /forum/post/16918052


Really wonder why yamaha disable this feature, there are still many audiophiles, who still wants simplicity get a GOOD AVR a nice bookshelf speakers and a nice sub for extended bass ( if the need arise )


Well hopefully Yamaha engineers read this thread, and will do something about in for the next firmware upgrade...

If you go back and read the reason why, you'll see you are asking for something that defeats the purpose of the pure direct mode.


If they turn the stuff on to make the sub work in pure direct mode, then it won't be pure direct mode.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moomoos /forum/post/16917917


yeah,logically, that's another conection way

but will the sound differ, its as though i am using 5/6/7 without the .1 channel for bass(as all LFE rerouted to mains sub)

will the sound be (if not better) the same as other 5.1/7.1 setup??


or should i get another sub for .1 channel to compliment the actual setup??


thanks

I don't know if the sound will be better or not, but it's the only choice if you want sub with pure direct mode and don't want to buy another sub.


Off the top of my head, I can't think of a reason why it shouldn't work basically the same way in either connection method.


Either way, the sub plays the LFE and bass from small channels/speakers below the assigned crossover, and produces the bass for the front large speakers below the low pass setting on the sub.


The drawback is that you may lose some flexibility in your bass management, but you gain the sub in pure direct which seems to be your primary goal.


Perhaps you should just try it and decide, rather than wonder about it.
 

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I have to admit, I don't get the OPs point. Honestly? Don't use Pure Direct. No point, IMO. In my mind and ears, it's marketing.


If you don't like YPAO, turn it off. If you don't want to send your bass to your sub, disable bass management (set all speakers to large.)


I have tried Pure Direct, and simply don't hear any difference worth defeating bass management for. This is a personal decision, of course.


No offense, but your position in this (and the other thread you felt the need to start on this topic,) seems a bit perverse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
i think there is software bugs(using 1.08), i set the mains to small, suddenly the sub turn ON, then i switched it back to large the sub also on


its ok now (hope not for the time being)
now 2 ch stereo and straight also the sub is working (but not pureDirect)

thanks eyeryone,

thanks michael and whoaru99,when the shipment arrive i give it a try your way
 
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