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Hi,


I have been searching for a while and had trouble finding the basics of building a tapped horn or folded horn subwoofer. I have a few questions, any useful links would be appreciated or anyone with experience in building them please add some light.


1. What is the key difference's between a tapped horn or folded horn subwoofer?

2. How do you model them? or what is the best way to model them? (step by step approach would be good)

3. Is the sound quality of a properly designed folded or tapped horn subwoofer less or better or equal to a bass reflex cabinet?

4. Are specific drivers better than others when it comes to using them in horn loaded subwoofers.


If I can get these questions answered, I will be willing to make some saw dust.
 

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Basically everything the DIY community knows about tapped horns can be found in this thread:

http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...threadid=97674


The idea still intrigues me but I never got around to pursuing it. I think I made it to page 80 or so of that thread before I got sidetracked and forgot all about it (at least I made it over half way through)...
 

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I need to print that entire thread out and put it in a notebook for reference. I have made it a few pages through, but I still want to know more. I am just not patient enough to read all 120+ pages in one or even two sittings.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DL86 /forum/post/16938795


Hi,


I have been searching for a while and had trouble finding the basics of building a tapped horn or folded horn subwoofer. I have a few questions, any useful links would be appreciated or anyone with experience in building them please add some light.


1. What is the key difference's between a tapped horn or folded horn subwoofer?

2. How do you model them? or what is the best way to model them? (step by step approach would be good)

3. Is the sound quality of a properly designed folded or tapped horn subwoofer less or better or equal to a bass reflex cabinet?

4. Are specific drivers better than others when it comes to using them in horn loaded subwoofers.


If I can get these questions answered, I will be willing to make some saw dust.

1 - There may be some blurring between the two, but a tapped horn has one side of the driver firing into the horn at the "throat tap" (S2 in hornresp), and the other side at the "mouth tap" (S3 or S4 in hornresp).


2 - hornresp - flick through the help file to the section on tapped horns. The tapped horn wizard is where you'll do much of your tweaking. Maybe try someone else's input data as a starting point while you're learning.


3 - Tapped horns have gotten some very good subjective reviews, both commercial boxes from DSL and diy builds.


4 - Yes. For tapped horns it's easiest/most optimal to use a driver with Fs higher than your intended low cutoff of the horn. In my (very limited) experience drivers with higher BL will still produce a flat enough response with horn cutoffs higher than Fs. Depending on your application, you may have trouble finding a driver with correct Fs and enough Xmax.
 

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The problem I have with the collaborative tapped horn thread is that its done mostly by people that already know about horn subs. I would, probably like dl86, to see a good beginners thread. Maybe a search for horn speakers in general would help to get a starting knowledge?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/16940803


The problem I have with the collaborative tapped horn thread is that its done mostly by people that already know about horn subs. I would, probably like dl86, to see a good beginners thread. Maybe a search for horn speakers in general would help to get a starting knowledge?

I completely agree. I kept reading even though I didn't really know the terminology, it started to make sense after a while although I don't think I'd remember now if I tried to read it again...



William Cowan's got some information on tapped horns at his site as well, follow the "Tapped Horn" link on the left:
http://www.cowanaudio.com/
 

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Agreed. Aside from knowledge and planning the actual build should be as easy as a standard braced box. More angles, but planned carefully the assembly shouldn't be that hard. I think the size involved with these builds along with the required knowledge shys people away from tapped horns.
 

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I've been modeling drivers for months in Hornresponse and I've got a list of drivers that I think look suitable for a TH build at least from my limited understanding. I plan on posting them up at some point. I'd love to see some more people try TH's or regular bass horn builds and document them. I just haven't had the time to try one yet. Aside from the design challenge, actually laying out the path length, angles, folds and designing the enclosure in a compact and well thought out manner could be challenging.
 

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I posted on the DIY forum about building a TH design using 4 B&K 12" woofers that I have sitting around. I wanted to make a stage in front of my HT screen and it would be cool for it to be a Tapped Horn.
 

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I built a 20hz tapped horn with a B&C 15PS100 driver about a year ago. It was my first design/build along with two front loaded horns.


IMHO tapped horns are fantastic performers and when I get a bigger space I'll be building more. The main trouble with them (as someone else noted) is they are very large and heavy, it really takes two people to build them.


My build is on page 95 of that huge thread over at DIYaudio and there's even 'napkin' diagram with dimensions.


You'll save yourself tons of time if you can just copy someone else build.


Erik also has some detailed plans here. Good luck with it!
http://www.volvotreter.de/th.htm
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve71 /forum/post/16947257


You'll save yourself tons of time if you can just copy someone else build.

]
That sort of thing just don't go around here...where's the fun in that? Seriously though for me the problem is nobody has done a build that I'd want to copy yet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci /forum/post/16947620

That sort of thing just don't go around here...where's the fun in that? Seriously though for me the problem is nobody has done a build that I'd want to copy yet.

After you build your 18" LMS TH, I will copy you and build a smaller version for my 15" LMS......and with that shall begin an unending string of LMS copycat tapped horns. But you, my son, must initiate this epic journey.




Seriously, I still am not excited about having to cross an LMS TH at 50Hz or so and lose all that mid bass goodness. How high up frequency-wise did the TH-50 go cleanly?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC /forum/post/16947817


If you haven't seen this documentation it may make interesting reading. Lot's of good construction pictures of the prototype being built.

http://www.pispeakers.com/Hornsub.html

That's quite a big box to have and then get the results they show in those shootouts. Response plummets in the low 30's. Give me a TH with low teens output at high levels--that's what I want!
 

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I've been following Myn's THT folded horn thread daily over at Bill Fitzmaurice's forum. He is close to finishing, so I'm excited to hear his impressions. It doesn't use an uber driver, but interesting none the less since Home Theater is his application and he's coming from an EBS subwoofer.

http://billfitzmaurice.net/phpBB3/vi...ab25c1a705fde7


Dr V
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci /forum/post/16947620

That sort of thing just don't go around here...where's the fun in that? Seriously though for me the problem is nobody has done a build that I'd want to copy yet.

Cowanaudio.com has a 18 hz tapped horn, but I think he used a driver that's not available to the public. He also has no build plans for that one. Most of the builds I have seen for tapped horns are 20-30 hz. For that I could just get multiple cheap drivers in standard boxes and roll with that. Give me a mid teens or lower horn with 125 db and I will be happy.


Problem I see with some of them is because of the nature of the enclosure interacting with the driver, xmax may not be reached, but the thermal limits can be reached sooner. That can be hard to deal with if you don't know the limits. Good drivers with stout voice coils shouldn't have a problem though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatawan /forum/post/16947808


Seriously, I still am not excited about having to cross an LMS TH at 50Hz or so and lose all that mid bass goodness. How high up frequency-wise did the TH-50 go cleanly?

I have to walk before I can run...



Remember I only heard the TH50 for a very limited amount of time in an unfamiliar environment. All I can for sure say is that it will get very loud and sounds very clean and uncongested while doing it. Big dynamics. I need more personal time with 4 of them in a small apartment. I'm not sure how high up the useable response goes. I thought I detected a bit of something going on up top when the crossover was at 100hz, but who knows. It could've been anything really. The poor little bookshelf mains were basically an afterthought at the levels we were pushing the TH50.


The Hornresponse models always have quite a bit of hash up top, but then I've seen some actual measurements that look considerably better. I've never built one and only briefly listened to others, so I don't know any more than you do. The guys who have built one say that it is not nearly as bad as the simulations predict and the Danley graphs certainly look good. (Who's to say that the DSL team doesn't have some magical enclosure tricks on a sacred scroll though?)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci /forum/post/16948425


I have to walk before I can run...



Remember I only heard the TH50 for a very limited amount of time in an unfamiliar environment. All I can for sure say is that it will get very loud and sounds very clean and uncongested while doing it. Big dynamics. I need more personal time with 4 of them in a small apartment. I'm not sure how high up the useable response goes. I thought I detected a bit of something going on up top when the crossover was at 100hz, but who knows. It could've been anything really. The poor little bookshelf mains were basically an afterthought at the levels we were pushing the TH50.


The Hornresponse models always have quite a bit of hash up top, but then I've seen some actual measurements that look considerably better. I've never built one and only briefly listened to others, so I don't know any more than you do. The guys who have built one say that it is not nearly as bad as the simulations predict and the Danley graphs certainly look good. (Who's to say that the DSL team doesn't have some magical enclosure tricks on a sacred scroll though?)

I use the term, "secret sauce" to describe those magical tricks inside the box. Danley has much sauce, as do Seaton's Terraform XLs. Wizards of Condiments they are!


If you look at the second to last graph on the tapped horn page at cowanaudio.com it appears to measure the hash exactly as predicted. I wish he has some more info on his 18Hz model there as well.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricci /forum/post/16947620

That sort of thing just don't go around here...where's the fun in that? Seriously though for me the problem is nobody has done a build that I'd want to copy yet.

I wanted to be able to fit two 80hz front loaded horns and a 20hz tapped horn on a 14ft wall without blocking a 96" screen, so designing something myself, so it would fit, was the only option.



I really wanted to go a bit lower with the TH, but it just wouldn't fit between the FLH's.
 
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