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Who exactly is Steve Chesky? Did you happen to intend to say Steve Wilson? Who IMO is the current best at multichannel. And what 'circle of confusion'?

http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html


Dr. Olive gave a lecture on the process and history of subjective speaker measurement and evaluation as part of the Training Academy I attended. Dr. Toole spoke twice, once on "The Science of Sound", an introduction to the science that supports the objective and subjective measurements that is the basis of how Revel and JBL products are developed. His second lecture was on Home Theater Acoustics. He discussed the basics of speaker placement, room treatments and how to get good bass.
 

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I was in California last week and spent a few days at Harman where I heard Revel and JBL immersive systems in the Eargle Theater, at Kevin Voeck's home and Dr. Toole's home. The systems use the JBL SDP-75 and have front L/C/R, five elevation (Atmos) channels in addition to six (four side and two rear) surrounds plus four subs using Sound Field Management.

I moved recently and and set up a 5.2 channel surround system in my home and have been listening to stereo upmix options on the Lexicon MC-10 processor. I will add Atmos speakers when budget allows.

Two channel stereo does not have a chance against even a basic surround system. Until you have heard it done well, you don't know what you have been missing.
I've heard quite a few, and it mostly isn't for me compared to well done two channel for music, although Steve Wilson does a credible job. HT is another matter entirely. I understand the need for HT.

However, I certainly understand why you feel the way you do. Next time I'm out in SoCal, I'd be happy to indulge myself if an invitation is forthcoming.
 

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OK, so you believe 100% of the soundstaging effects you hear from your speakers are contained in the recordings, most speakers simple lack the ability to bring them out as well as yours. That's what I figured. I doubt it's true, but it makes sense you would believe that.

Who exactly is Steve Chesky?
That's not what I said. Please brush up on your English. Steve's (the possessive of Steve) Chesky (as in Chesky Records, a studio at which Steve Guttenberg worked and had a hand in many albums). They contain many test tracks in which the mic setup and instrument location are described in an effort to provide source material with which to test setups with a reduction in the circle of confusion. Very helpful for some things.


And what 'circle of confusion'?
Uhm, have you been reading as much as you've been posting in this thread? Dr. Toole has spoken of it many times. It might even be in his book a time or two. :)
 

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http://seanolive.blogspot.com/2009/10/audios-circle-of-confusion.html


Dr. Olive gave a lecture on the process and history of subjective speaker measurement and evaluation as part of the Training Academy I attended. Dr. Toole spoke twice, once on "The Science of Sound", an introduction to the science that supports the objective and subjective measurements that is the basis of how Revel and JBL products are developed. His second lecture was on Home Theater Acoustics. He discussed the basics of speaker placement, room treatments and how to get good bass.
Yes, Rex, I'm well aware of it as I've seen this posted maybe hundreds of times and have watched/read several. I'm still not a fanboi though.
 

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OK, so you believe 100% of the soundstaging effects you hear from your speakers are contained in the recordings, most speakers simple lack the ability to bring them out as well as yours. That's what I figured. I doubt it's true, but it makes sense you would believe that.


That's not what I said. Please brush up on your English. Steve's (the possessive of Steve) Chesky (as in Chesky Records, a studio at which Steve Guttenberg worked and had a hand in many albums). They contain many test tracks in which the mic setup and instrument location are described in an effort to provide source material with which to test setups with a reduction in the circle of confusion. Very helpful for some things.
Right to the insults, right?

Pardon me, I'll ask again, who is Steve Chesky? Yes, I know Steve Guttenberg and certainly know who Norm and Dave Chesky are, but who is Steve Chesky?
 

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OK, so you believe 100% of the soundstaging effects you hear from your speakers are contained in the recordings, most speakers simple lack the ability to bring them out as well as yours. That's what I figured. I doubt it's true, but it makes sense you would believe that.


That's not what I said. Please brush up on your English. Steve's (the possessive of Steve) Chesky (as in Chesky Records, a studio at which Steve Guttenberg worked and had a hand in many albums). They contain many test tracks in which the mic setup and instrument location are described in an effort to provide source material with which to test setups with a reduction in the circle of confusion. Very helpful for some things.



Uhm, have you been reading as much as you've been posting in this thread? Dr. Toole has spoken of it many times. It might even be in his book a time or two. :)
Please work on your reading comprehension. I said what 'circle of confusion'. I didn't say 'what is'. Post 3197
 

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Checked Dr. Toole's book page 66. (1st edition) . It has a good discussion about sound fields in small rooms. Sound field is how we experience sound intensity and not direct sound alone.

-3dB per double the distance is closer to what is observed in numerous experiments.
And, if you want something more detailed in the evaluation of amplifier power needs, look at the companion website to the 3rd edition of my book - www.routledge.com/cw/toole. It is open access - no need to buy the book. The relevant content is the Part 3 of the How to Design a Home Theater series of articles. Click on the title at the top of the web page and download.

Summary: we need numbers from manufacturers who do not always tell the truth.

EDIT: my apologies, I put a dot where a forward slash should have been.
 

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Pardon me, I'll ask again, who is Steve Chesky?
I never typed Steve Chesky. Get a magnifying glass if you can't see an apostrophe unaided.



I said what 'circle of confusion' I didn't say 'what is' ?
If you have intimate knowledge of the recording and mixing techniques used on the "99% of all music", such that you actually know what sort of 3D imaging may be contained in the recordings, please let the rest of us in on your source for this information.
 

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And, if you want something more detailed in the evaluation of amplifier power needs, look at the companion website to the 3rd edition of my book - www.routledge.com.cw/toole. It is open access - no need to buy the book. The relevant content is the Part 3 of the How to Design a Home Theater series of articles. Click on the title at the top of the web page and download.

Summary: we need numbers from manufacturers who do not always tell the truth.
Not sure why that link wasn't working but I googled it and https://routledgetextbooks.com/textbooks/9781138921368/ seems to take you to the proper site.
 

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I never typed Steve Chesky. Get a magnifying glass if you can't see an apostrophe unaided.


If you have intimate knowledge of the recording and mixing techniques used on the "99% of all music", such that you actually know what sort of 3D imaging may be contained in the recordings, please let the rest of us in on your source for this information.
So more insults? Right back at you if you cannot see 'what circle of confusion' versus 'what is circle of confusion' However, I will plead guilty that I'm getting up toward 80 years old and using a tablet out in the sun. A magnifying glass will likely burn a hole in the screen, but thanks for the suggestion.

Since you claimed that I may have repeated certain statements 2,000 times, obviously you've read my comments since the inception of this thread. I have discussed this throughout my posts on this thread and elsewhere. Your answer is in here.
 

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This is what crown provides as guidelines:



https://www.crownaudio.com/how-much-amplifier-power



The designer of my speakers often used Spectron power amps at shows.



You also need to factor in the use of DSP in the equation.



You can do all the calculations you want, but in the end what matters to me is the real world experience in my room. And for the levels I listen at, the amps I employ fit the bill.



Mains: Yamaha P7000S

Center: Adcom 7705 (1 channel)

Surrounds: Onkyo 3009 Receiver

2 18" subs: iNuke 6000DSP

1 18" sub: plate amp



Cheers,

OldMovieNut
Amplifier manufacturers guidelines are hardly honest.
 

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Amplifier manufacturers guidelines are hardly honest.
Did you read the info on the Crown website? Not really directed at audiophiles, and more of a loose set of guidelines instead of their white papers, but hardly a sales pitch.
 

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I've heard quite a few, and it mostly isn't for me compared to well done two channel for music, although Steve Wilson does a credible job. HT is another matter entirely. I understand the need for HT.



However, I certainly understand why you feel the way you do. Next time I'm out in SoCal, I'd be happy to indulge myself if an invitation is forthcoming.
Me too. If an invitation is forthcoming, of course.
 

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Did you read the info on the Crown website? Not really directed at audiophiles, and more of a loose set of guidelines instead of their white papers, but hardly a sales pitch.
Yes. You are correct.

My thoughts were that amplifier power rating (RMS) should not be defined by max power capability of the speaker, but the power requirement at the listening level.

Also the power needed for the transient peaks in the music needs to be compared with transient power capacity (rather than RMS power capacity) of the amp.

Would you agree?
 

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I have discussed this throughout my posts on this thread and elsewhere. Your answer is in here.
I guess you're right. If you have previously posted how you have intimate knowledge of the recording and mixing techniques of 99% of all music, and are therefor exempt from the "Circle of Confusion" I must have missed it. Please quote yourself so the circle of confusion is eliminated for the rest of us as I'm clearly not the only one who missed it.
 

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I guess you're right. If you have previously posted how you have intimate knowledge of the recording and mixing techniques of 99% of all music, and are therefor exempt from the "Circle of Confusion" I must have missed it. Please quote yourself so the circle of confusion is eliminated for the rest of us as I'm clearly not the only one who missed it.
Ya know, you can leave the condescension out of your responses to me if you would truly like any sort of discussion. Thank you.
 

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Yes. You are correct.

My thoughts were that amplifier power rating (RMS) should not be defined by max power capability of the speaker, but the power requirement at the listening level.

Also the power needed for the transient peaks in the music needs to be compared with transient power capacity (rather than RMS power capacity) of the amp.

Would you agree?

This is why I get by with that itty bitty Yamaha with my LRSs versus Magnepan's recommendations. I just can't listen that loud unless I go ask neighbors to crank their hearing aids down and that would be an un-neighborly thing to do.
 
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