[JustinChase]

I've done lots of reading and searching and can't seem to find anything to really answer this, and this seems the best place to ask.


We bought our house almost a year ago, and projects have kept me on other things until recently. i have always wanted to do a full on home-theater, but budget and space have not been available in the past. in the new house I don't really have the space for a dedicated theater either but it's other characteristics won out over the (perhaps arguably) frivolous dedicated room.


I do however have a plan. My living room is pretty large (16' x 22') with 12' vaulted ceilings, which is nice, but it's also open to the dining and living rooms and has doorways going off from each end. It also has a skylight and sliding door, plus the large window in the dining room and the small window in the kitchen.


All of these windows can be covered, but will likely not be lightproof during daylight hours. I have can lighting in the ceiling with eyeballs to keep light off the screen area. I have attached a few pictures, the first is looking at the display area, then the left into the kitchen and dining area and finally looking back at the seating area.


Finally I have a ceiling fan and large fireplace to contend with.


The ceiling fan hangs down 30" from the peak and I'll need to be about 16' to 21' from the display wall to get behind this ceiling fan. The current seating has us about 21' from the screen, but will likely end up closer to 18' when all is said and done (wife has design ideas that don't necessarily go with theater ideas).


The 16' wide room does not have a 16' wide wall as a 3' doorway on the left cuts me down to 13' of wall space, and keeping it somewhat centered only leaves me with about 10' of width to use. I'll need to be above my speakers also, which gives me a lower edge of about 3' off the ground.


Now, the fun stuff. I've finally decided to buy a projector. I really don't watch much TV, but really enjoy movies & documentaries and the wife likes TV. I'm not what you'd call a gamer, but could easily see that changing as I do enjoy it quite a bit when I make the time. Wife wants a Wii.


I sort of figure I can hang it from the vaulted ceiling low enough to get under the ceiling fan, but high enough to not be in the way of anyone (or distracting and ugly).


Wife thinks this is all a bit silly I think, and is not really on board. Okay, she has her right to her opinion.


Here's my challenge. The walls are painted an eggshell Behr "Stable Hay" yellow/beige color. I don't think I'm gonna convince the wife to let me hang a big grey screen on the wall, nor paint the screen area; not at first anyway. Nor am I certain I want a big screen on the wall all the time either quite frankly.


So, I've been thinking about how hard it would be to offest the yellow color in the calibration to give me white whites and dark blacks. I know the obvious answer is that it's not a good idea, it'll never be right. I'm okay with that to start. I just want to know if going from a 32" HiDef (720p) LCD to a 10' screen will be so much better that the (hopefully) slight inaccuracies will not make it un-enjoyable. I'm not a big videophile, but I do understand this all much better than John Q Public, and feel I can notice when things aren't quite right.


I'm willing to deal with the yellow issue for the (hopefully amazing) impactof going to a 10' screen (I sit about 21' from the current 32" TV). I won't put up with a clearly crappy picture, but with nothing to compare it to in my house, how much will I really notice?


I'm wanting to buy the Epson PowerLite Home Cinema 6100 Projector, but might end up getting something less.


I figure I need lots of light to throw 17' and get a 10' image with enough light to compensate for ambient and reflection issues.


I thought about embedding magnets in the drywall to hold a border, but figure a lightweight plastic? frame covered in velvet that I can just hang on a few hooks on the wall when I want to watch something, and can easily remove it when we have people over to just hang out will work fine too.


So, anyone have any thoughts or opinions?


I'm sure I'm missing some things so all suggestions are welcome.


thanks!!

 

[tiddler]

Could you provide a photo of the wall to the right of the seating area. That would be the wall the sliding doors are on?

Horizontal and vertical lens shift would allow you to mount the projector on a shelf on this right side wall. Maybe a foot bellow the the joint of the wall and ceiling. What is the distance from the brick work to the screen wall?


Here is an interesting idea of how to hide that big screen:

Bravo! Very nicely done westcott!


These photos are of an integrated home theater implemented and presented by "westcott" over at Projector Central. To see his thread look for "His and Her" Home Theater Magazine, in the My Home Theater Showcase Forum at Projector Central. (Note: links to Projector Central seem to be forbidden here at AVS).


If the screen was simply painted on the wall and the borders were either painted or felt tape, the mural would be right up against the wall and the screen would be completely hidden even from the side.

 

[JustinChase]

Thanks, that *is* a clever way to hide a fixed screen.


Here is a picture i already have of that side of the room, let me know if you want to see more of it, I can take another one this evening. The brick begins 9' from the front wall and the chimney is 78" wide.


Will I end up sacrificing the picture by using so much lens shift?


That is my exterior wall, so getting it wired might not be too much fun

Any thoughts about the ability to adjust to compensate for the yellow; at least to get us started? I definitely want to get a good DIY screen in here, but gotta sell the wife on it with real world experience first.

 

[kbgl]

When I first bought my projector, I used it on a beige wall that looks about like your picture does on my monitor. The colors weren't perfect, but it was close enough to enjoy the show. I didn't use any masking, and still don't. I wouldn't worry about masking. For one thing, without masking, you can alter the picture size with the zoom without drawing attention to the size change. When you need the extra lumens, you can reduce the size to get them. Also, not every source looks good at 120". Sometimes cutting the size down is an improvement. I saw a brief demo of an Epson 6500UB a while back. The picture could be zoomed from about 50" to over 100", and moved around anywhere on the screen with the lens shift.

 

[tiddler]

Here is a sketch of what I was thinking:

If you mount the projector near the ceiling with it's rear edge aligned with the side of the fireplace furthest from the screen wall, that will place the lens about 14'6" from the screen wall. That gives you a screen size range of 69" - 148". This should place you in the wider end of th zoom range.


You could either ceiling mount the projector or add a shelf to the fireplace for mounting the projector. Something like this:

You could run some plastic conduit up the corner of the fireplace where it meets the wall. Then go though the floor into the basement to run the wires to the equipment at the other end of the room.


I have not seen a review of this projector so I can't comment on the effects of a half screen horizontal lens shift. I don't think that is unreasonable but I have no first hand experience with lens shift.


I will also let others comment on the results you may get projecting on a yellow wall.

 

[Cnd Joe]

I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking but someone here had posted a link to a company that they used to for their screen. It was a rigid foam board with a plastic coating, they used it for making billboard signs if memory is correct. It came in various sizes and fairly cheap I may add too.


You could simply paint on a flat black boarder and 2 ppl could easily move it.


Have you looked at the new Panasonic AE3000 pj? I have the 2000 and its not bad but I'm into the 2:35 look and had to buy a lens to fit across it, while the new 3000 has better contrast and can do the 2:35 look on board. Just cannot justify the new pj cost seeing as how my current still works.

 

[tiddler]

Search the forum for "foamcore".

 

[kbgl]

I think a screen might improve the look of the room!

 

[JustinChase]

Thanks everyone for all the feed back and the nice mock ups.


kbgl, when you had your set up on a yellowish wall, you said it wasn't too bad; did you try to calibrate the pj to compensate and that wasn't too bad, or do you mean without too much calibration it wasn't too bad, and if it had been calibrated it might be much better?


tiddler, I really like the idea of shelf mounting the pj, and you mock up looks great. unfortunately, I don't have a basement and that side of the house is the back of the house/roof, which means no access above either, so I don't know how I'd get it wired. I suppose I might be able to do something similar on the left side; but is there some reason to not try to mount it below the ceiling fan? I'm guessing it'd have to be mounted with the bottom about 8' off the floor, which would probably stand out too much. Hmmm...


I was also thinking about something I think you mentioned in another thread. You (someone?) suggested perhaps mounting a BOC along the top edge to a board and again on the bottom, but not mounting the sides so that it could be rolled up when not in use, the unrolled and hung when needed/wanted. That might end up being the best "changeable" solution for us. hang it when I really care about the image, otherwise, life as normal.


That brings up the question of the ability of that to be painted. I'm guessing no way, but I'm sure I've seen it suggested that a painted cloth screen could be either folded or rolled. I would certainly think the paint would crack, but perhaps not. Did I mis-read/understand other posts to even think this is possible; it doesn't seem like it would be possible.


Anyone else have any thoughts about how to compensate for the yellow or if it could even be done?

 

[Cnd Joe]

From what I've read yes BOC can be painted, but check with Tiddler I recall one of his posting said Behr 4580 is good for that but check with him again. i bought some BOC to test for a plain white screen.. for heaven's sake do not CREASE it.


If that is your plan, I would check out local blind stores and see about buying just the aluminum rod, wheel end, mount and beaded pull chain. I work in construction industry and I just hung up a lady's window roller blind it was easily 6feet long. You mount that on your wall, and then make a half box out of say 1/4 inch mdf(painted to match the wall) which will cover it up , and hang that with simple L brackets .

Take a look at the box above my window in this picture, that is what I'm trying to say you can build to cover your screen/blind mechanism

http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/n...Screen1034.jpg


So you have no attic to speak of correct?


I have my PJ in my living room and I really don't notice it. I will take a few picture of my screen set up, I've got it done and have a posting in the DYI CIH section. Let me tell you once you build it and fire that puppy up in the dark, your wife will love it if not ... get a new wife

I watch all my movies on mine and I love it, and some Xbox games are great on it too.

 

[kbgl]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinChase /forum/post/15479580


Thanks everyone for all the feed back and the nice mock ups.


kbgl, when you had your set up on a yellowish wall, you said it wasn't too bad; did you try to calibrate the pj to compensate and that wasn't too bad, or do you mean without too much calibration it wasn't too bad, and if it had been calibrated it might be much better?

My wall was a bit closer to neutral I think. I used my original wall for maybe a day or two, and that was about a year and a half ago. Adjustment helped, but not enough for me in the long run. I suggest painting the wall or a screen after you try it as is. Who knows. You could get lucky and be able to adjust it enough.


In the second picture ( see Tiddlers post below. ), I tried to draw in a boxed beam across the wall, and figured that you could recess a pull-down screen that would be hidden inside when not in use.

 

[tiddler]

It is possible to paint BOC. I would not suggest it for the scroll type BOC screen I suggested to edan. I think the rolling would be to rough and the paint would get damaged. You can paint a retractable because it rolls up smoothly around the drum. Folding a painted BOC screen would no doubt lead to cracking.


The main reason I was contemplating side shelf mounting the projector was to have it less intrusive in the room and to get the wiring near the wall and down a corner to the floor.


If you ceiling mount the projector it will hang down into the room and I guess you will have to run the wiring in some sort of conduit to the screen wall where the equipment is.


I think wiring the projector is one of the bigger challenges when integrating the equipment into a living space.

 

[tiddler]

As far as mounting the projector on a shelf on the opposite side of the room goes, I see no reason why not. If it will make running the wires easier then that would be best.


If you did ceiling mount the projector how were you going to run the wires?


I like kbgl's idea of the box in retractable screen on the wall:

You could use trim moldings like I did for my valance:




Of course in your situation the valance would go against the wall.


Hmmmm . . . I was just thinking. You could make a fake cross beam near the end wall to house a retractable. Then place another fake beam near the center of the room to use as a shelf to set the projector on. For symmetry you would need to also put a matching fake beam at the other end of the room. This could be useful though. If you make both end beams able to house a retractable screen, you could reverse the room arrangement if you wanted.

 

[Laserfan]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinChase /forum/post/15470571


So, anyone have any thoughts or opinions?

FWIW (and maybe that's not much!) and perhaps someone has suggested it here already, but IMO you've got your room backwards. The sofa is next to the fireplace and faces the kitchen (and util room beyond)!? No.


Probably the builder expected folks to put a dining table by the double-sliding door where your setup is. In any case, I'd try pulling the sofa out from that back wall and into the middle of the room, facing that back wall, or facing the fireplace, and consider whether the TV/screen should be on that back wall to the right of the fireplace.


BTW what's behind the back wall (that your sofa is against right now)?

 

[tiddler]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan /forum/post/15483942


FWIW (and maybe that's not much!) and perhaps someone has suggested it here already, but IMO you've got your room backwards. The sofa is next to the fireplace and faces the kitchen (and util room beyond)!? No.


Probably the builder expected folks to put a dining table by the double-sliding door where your setup is. In any case, I'd try pulling the sofa out from that back wall and into the middle of the room, facing that back wall, or facing the fireplace, and consider whether the TV/screen should be on that back wall to the right of the fireplace.


BTW what's behind the back wall (that your sofa is against right now)?

I think you have made some good points Laserfan. To help with the room layout here are the photos we have so far:


The currently proposed screen wall:

To the left of the screen wall:

The back wall and hall leading to the bedrooms (I think):

To the right of the screen wall:

Hope that helps to make the room layout clear.

 

[Laserfan]

I didn't see that last pic you exposed for me tiddler. Guess we should ask the OP also for a pic of the wall behind the chair i.e. to the left of the kitchen. A table's there I'd expect.


Also, what's behind the two walls i.e. the wall where the TV is currently (where screen is planned) and behind the sofa?

 

[JustinChase]

you make a good detective tiddler. I'm guessing you mistyped when you say the fireplace is to the left, it is to your right as your seated, watching the screen.


in the first picture, the hall to the left goes to the master, which is right behind the screen wall and the the laundry, which has a door and quite appliances, so no noise problems.


to the left you see the kitchen, and further to the left is the dining room, and even further; just to the left (as you watch the screen) is the entry, which would walk you right into the couch at this point. There are no walls separating any of this, except one between the entry and dining, but it has a large opening also.


She has agreed the couch needs to be 3-4' closer to the screen. Any closer and it's right in front of the fireplace.


I thought about reversing the layout, but decided having the couch on the other side puts it right in the walkway to the only exterior exit sliding doors, and that didn't seem good. it also works out that having all that space will be great for playing the Wii.


In the back wall picture that doorway goes to the other bath and 2 bedrooms.


The wall you would expect to separate the living area from the kit/dining was replaced with a 12" double microlam spanning 23'. You can see it in the kitchen pic, it goes all the way to the wall in the back wall photo.


I think it does make a lot of sense to mount it somehow off that beam (shelf maybe?) so that it doesn't hang below the bottom of the beam. Maybe further up the ceiling?


i do have attic access there, on that side of the peak, only the right side follows the rafters.


As for the screen ideas. If I can find a way to roll a decent screen around an up to maybe a 10" (12"??) roll, I think the fake valance idea has merit, but I'm thinking maybe a plant shelf. My wife loves plants and they can get lots of light up there during the day. Then, I can just close curtains, pull down the screen and fire it all up. PLUS, as my mind wonders, I can have it roll on the side away from the wall and there will be space behind the screen to push the little TV against the wall; leaving it to be used in lighted situations.


this is all starting to come together.


Now, the bad news.


As I was looking closer around the fireplace, I have discovered that the house we bought in February is settling. It was built in 73. It's actually not settling, it's got serious wood rot damage in the wood all around the fireplace and it seems to be no longer able to support the weight of the roof (and the added on covered patio roof) and is pressing down on the brick facade and needs to be repaired pretty much right away; which means my fun funds just got sucked away into emergency repair funds.

Anyone know a good framing carpenter in Austin, TX?


I hope it's not too bad, but early exploration tell me it won't be easy, or fun; and I don't know how far the damage goes yet.


I did have a professional inspector inspect before buying, along with having the foundation checked for level and for termites "some minor damage noted"


Turns out the prior, prior owner had a water leak that turned into mold that turned into her moving out of the house for 6 months while the insurance company paid a crook a ridiculous amount of money to replace drywall and paint the (I assume) damaged studs with kilz, lay a tile floor over the laminate floor and replace ductwork that looks like it was installed by a spider on LSD; and who knows what else. Genius. No one informed me of any of this until I started digging and asking the neighbor a couple nights ago.


Anyone know a good real estate attorney in Austin?


I may keep my eye out for a cheap/decent starter pj on craigslist and see if I can get something with low hours, 720p widescreen for under $300. I'm not holding my breath, but I'll keep looking.


Anyone got a nice, cheap projector in Austin?

Oh, and I don't have a basement tiddler, but the left shelf mount solves that so I'm still good; once my house is fixed.


Anyone else have any thoughts about calibrating for the yellow wall?



Thanks again to everyone for all the great ideas.

 

[tiddler]

OUCH!

Sorry to hear about the troubles with the house.

Look on the bright side. When you are done with all that and have saved up again to get a projector, you will get twice the projector you would have gotten now. Sorry, it's the best consolation I could come up with.

Maybe you should send an email to "Holmes On Homes". Oh ya, that's a Canadian show, Eh!

 

[JustinChase]

Thanks. I am actually hoping I'll just get the same projector for 1/2 the price

yeah, i really like him, I should call him; eh

 

[tiddler]



Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinChase /forum/post/15491752


Thanks. I am actually hoping I'll just get the same projector for 1/2 the price

yeah, i really like him, I should call him; eh

That is certainly possible. Two years ago I paid $2300 Cdn for my HD72 and now you can get an Epson 6100 for less than that or an HD65 or Sharp DT-510 for under $1000.