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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
--------------------------------- PART 1 ----------------------------------
Did your ONKYO work great for a year or more and then start exhibiting difficulty locking or remaining locked on your HDMI stream ? Do you need to warm it up like a 1957 television and it keeps getting longer ? Some of you instead lose component video sources or On Screen Display from its HDMI out.
Well my unit finally became unbearable and after a few hours of time well wasted on the internet, the uncertain deed was attempted. This post is an effort to enlighten those who may be interested too. I figured that eventually as these AVRs age beyond warranty, some of you may want to also take matters into your own hands.
This guide is based on my own '576, but should benefit other models in the design family with HDMI related failures provided that you extrapolate the concepts to fit your application.

UPDATE 2015 - serafis describes multiple successful TX-SR606 repairs plus prevention > http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1246078-how-diy-tx-sr576-tx-sr606-etc-hdmi-daughterboard-repair-dummies-31.html#post31142105
...one of so many people who took time to help others - and why this thread gained momentum.
Before proceeding make sure you ruled out other causes/options like in this sticky > http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/1652514-onkyo-acknowledges-failed-units-extending-warrranties-until-2018-a.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
ping runnin' : Most likely* able to solve the common degenerative 'issues' ; won't improve something that never worked, just to be clear. ( *first attempt, need more feedback )


ping maxcooper : I can't be 100% on which model/build dates are applicable, but you are surely kind for expressing that.
 

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What led you to key on the caps?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
------------------------- PART 2 -----------------------------

OK, so you have tried PART 1 and it's working - congratulations - but don't be silly and put that cover back on.....we won't be needing that anymore, unless you want to perpetuate the grief. Ridonkulous, you're thinking, where else are you going to pile those DVD cases
. Fine, just as long as you complete the repair by adding active ventilation/circulation !. I'm not going to elaborate on what other resourceful forum members have already put out there....just remember you've already crossed that line and have warmed up the iron. I'm currently wrestling with an elegant solution for a PART 3...


in the meantime ;


*Here is the re-capped board as viewed from the top. No improvement after these initial two were changed

*I added a CPU cooling fan connector (previously enjoyed) to an unpopulated capacitor pad ('606 and others won't be empty). It supplies around 9-10 volts (thru the 2 1N4007 diodes) which should quiet the eventual internal fan
Attachment 174320






*This is the bottom view and worth noting is that after replacing the two uppermost caps, all malfunctioning ceased (tested after every second cap). They reside in an area directly above the smokin' hot transistor/heatsink seen in the image that follows this - coincidence ???

*optional: a small dab of RTV silicone, colour of your choice, will keep these new caps secure during any rough rides
Attachment 174321






*While apart, I added a 'previously enjoyed' heatsink to the Bridge Rectifier ('cause it burnt my finger). Although silkscreened on the PCB, this likely was omitted on the '576 due to the absent processor/components on the HDMI board.

*This area is just begging for circulation IMO
Attachment 174322





*I came across the following manufacturer's suggested design circuit example. These boards use this verbatim as the initial supply for the regulators we are ultimately targeting. The 470 and 220uF caps involved are not on the hot underside and as such are a lower priority on the replacement wish-list.
Attachment 174323




If you've read this far, great, but this has become more FYI than DIY.

Many have observed how temperature affects the faulty ONKYO but I can elaborate. While my unit would be on the verge of instability with artifacts in the video, I'd barely cool* the chip SiI9185' (3to1 HDMI switch) and the signal disappeared until it warmed. Same conditions, cooling* neighbouring chip SiI9013' (HDMI receiver) and the signal became flawless temporarily. IOW change a chip's tolerance to noisy power by means of temperature. (Initially I feared faulty chips!) This helps explain the commonly reported wait times after first powering on.

( *with an inverted can of 'electronics duster' - yes, a third use ;-)


[ to be continued....bullet-proof or bust ]



 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai /forum/post/18557085


What led you to key on the caps?

Logical question Chu Gai. Within the novel I read on the subject ( actually a series of 1328 short stories, aka posts ) there were 2 or 3 references to 8-10 capacitors on repair invoices. One vic actually quoted a long ONKYO part number...g00gled it to one Euro site which added (something)4V100M or so and that finally focused me. No single post, but the sum of the parts.


( I'll try to fill missing info/questions regularly )
 

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It all boils down to heat. What's your elevation where you live in Alberta? I've had Rotel gear that would not work here in NM at 5,000 ft (1,525 m) but worked perfectly when sent back to Rotel in New Jersey (or wherever they are). I don't think the manufacturers test at high altitude for proper cooling.
 

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Quote:
I don't think the manufacturers test at high altitude for proper cooling.

Its it harder to cool things at 5,000ft? I guess, since I remember something about boiling being different at 5,000ft. Sorry I have forgot a lot about that stuff from 25 years ago.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Penngray, for the purposes of dissipating heat in our electronics, the boiling of water instead has more of an effect on my macaroni and cheese....which by the way, I could almost cook on top of this onkyo some days. Water does boil at a measureably lower temperature at higher altitudes.

OTOH, as petew's point is valid in principle (barometric pressure+relative humidity=mass), but it won't make or break an epic fail design. PIXAR is currently producing an animation for this thread
but in the meantime they sent me this sneak peak; Attachment 174398




>>>>>>>> TX-SR5xx/6xx/xx layout, cross-section looking left2right
 

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Thanks for the post and the research done. I'm looking forward to reading more on this before I attempt it myself.

How much of a difference in the syncing have you observed after change the caps?


------------------------- PART 2 -----------------------------

OK, so you have tried PART 1 and it's working - congratulations - but don't be silly and put that cover back on.....we won't be needing that anymore, unless you want to perpetuate the grief. Ridonkulous, you're thinking, where else are you going to pile those DVD cases
. Fine, just as long as you complete the repair by adding active ventilation/circulation !. I'm not going to elaborate on what other resourceful forum members have already put out there....just remember you've already crossed that line and have warmed up the iron. I'm currently wrestling with an elegant solution for a PART 3...
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by petew /forum/post/18564519


Forgot about humidity. As my drunk friend Marvin likes to say:

"It's dryer'n a popcorn fart in New Mexico"

lol, sounds like your friend knows how to compensate for the dryness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lummy /forum/post/18566477


Thanks for the post........How much of a difference in the syncing have you observed after change the caps?
lummy, this OiNK' now behaves like I remember. Typically 5 seconds from cold power up or input switching until picture. I exclusively run my PC (ATI HD4650) on a 47PFL3603D Philips. At it's worst it wouldn't sync cold and once 'warm' it had varying amounts of visual noise and audio snaps when it wasn't losing it altogether. Hopefully yours goes well!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
--------------------------------------------PART 2.5----------------------------------------------

UPDATE; December 2011: Although the following exerpt is an insight towards the adding of auxilliary capacitors, there are more examples littered throughout this thread. I soon describe how to determine if your situation requires this additional measure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macks1974 /forum/post/18443480


Work Performed

Replaced C8072, C8096, C8602, C8609 and added 4 TF caps on HDMI board per Onkyo tech bulletin #10012702. Checked operation with a Blu-Ray player and a 1080p TV monitor.

- - - - -{in regards to a TX-sr606 with handshaking issues }




*top/bottom of daughterboard; TX-SR576 version
Attachment 174496




I'm taking the liberty of assuming C8602 should have read C8607 - as in the case of my version of board, I couldn't locate the former. Of the four listed above, two apply to mine. As it happens I had only replaced C8607('C8602'), tested;unchanged, then replaced two not listed(C8162+C278), tested;good! then finally replaced one listed + one not, testing;redundant. There should never be any regrets if a few extras get replaced IMO

.

*UPDATE; December 2011/aka 19 months later...Unit repaired with repurposed parts as described - powered 24/7 - still flawless (AFAIK
running @1080P , non-HDCP, various audio formats*

*Please note that my contributions contain much speculation and therefore posts by others who own your specific model (search each page for it, ie "606") should supercede the former*
 

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Good stuff CZ_the_DAY!
 

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Thank you for contacting me, i will try as soon as my onkyo comes back from the repair shop.


They quoted me $449 on a message on my phone, guess they want to replace the board, i'm not going for that, can buy a brand new one for cheaper.


Richard
 

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I tried the approach offered by CZ on my 606. I replaced all 10 100 uF Caps with 105 degree 10V components. My results are that I have OSD using 480P output and sound from both composite and component sources while displaying OSD. However, I have no video or audio from any sources HDMI/Component/Svideo/composite. When I remove OSD, the sound from the selected source (in the case of my component and composite sources) also stops leaving the black screen. I have also noticed that when cold, there is a great deal of cracking and popping in the audio that I can hear that seems to dissapate when warmed up.

I know many of these results are consistent with other posters. Just wanted to see if there was any feedback before I go about replacing the rest of the caps on the board haphazardly. Here are some shots of my board in case anyone was wondering what the 606 difference were.


Might also be worth noting that I am only using TV audio through HDMI, not speakers attached to receiver

 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
navtek; good to have your feedback! It's just unfortunate that there was no happy ending.

-Could you clarify what if any improvement this repair made

-Also, if possible, carefully measure the main supply to the board (5 wire ribbon*) both without and with a viable signal being output. Mine varies from 11 to 10+ Vdc respectively. I have been accepting these values because it has been behaving anyways. (*connector silkscreened as 'gnd/12v/gnd/12v/gnd')

-I can't tell from the pics if your new caps have polarity markings; are they installed PC ? (polarity correct :)

PM me if you prefer


[ Updated! Our common experiences, as our units change temperature, really make me think there is a similar mechanism involved> Degenerative Capacitor Syndrome

As my posts are kept as fresh as possible (which would explain the incontinuities ;p ), we have learned that more parts are involved than in my case. It comes down to the luck of the draw. Under duress, some components outshine their life expectency and some fall short. Focus on what is under fire first (the underside of the board), replace; if all seems well then improve its living conditions from now on. ]
 

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CZ,

First of all, thanks for your interest in this effort. I think if we can build up some data, most everyone will be able solve their problems with these boards.


1. As far as I can tell, there is no difference at all. All the symptoms are the same as before the repair was attempted. So, the good news is that I guess I did no harm
. As I said before, I am able to display the OSD in 480P only and hear audio from the selected source (non HDMI only) in the background (with crackling and popping until warmed up). I haven't tried the canned air test but maybe this would be a good idea.


2. I will measure the power supply feeds tonight and post results. The only question I have on this is that I don't see how filtering issues will be determined using a DVM, wouldn't I need an O-scope to derive how much noise is on the DC signal? Of course, I don't have access to one so that presents its own issues.


3. I would expect the voltages to read 10-11 when under load so that seems like a good thing. If you have a blown IC, maybe that would read a full 12V open. Concur? Maybe that was what you were going for anyway



4. I couldn't really tell from the diagram you posted, but it seems that the 470 uF caps are in LC networks with the 470 inductors which I would think would handle the AC filtering aspect. Maybe I'm way off here. Just thinking out loud. In any case I have measured the coils and they seem to be good. Perhaps this could rule out the transformer.


Anyway, I'll carefully check the power input (five wire cable) and report back this evening.


PS: My caps did not have Polarity indicators on the leads so hopefully that means there was no difference. However, there were different lead lengths on the components.

I could not determine the polarities of the sockets, maybe you could enlighten me? Thanks again!
 
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